Open Thread

Open Thread #80

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94 thoughts on “Open Thread #80

  1. Has anyone used the “sugar daddy” website SeekingArrangement?

    One interesting thing I noticed about using the site in various parts of North America is the difference in behavior of women in big cities vs small cities/towns. The girls in small cities/towns act much more entitled and think way more highly of themselves than their counterparts in big cities.

    Case in point: Small town girl wanted $500 for dinner, plus $700 for time afterwards and that doesn’t include the dinner or hotel! Others wanted money just to meet with them – then if you couldn’t decided on an arrangement you leave empty hand and the girl leaves with your money! They were a 6 at best. Long story short I never did anything with any of these women.

    I never saw that with girls in big cities using the site AND they were much better looking, more educated, and more cultured than their small town counterparts.

    Just an interesting observation!

    1. I’d guess that this is because those small-town girls have unrealistic expectations whereas big-city girls have a pretty good sense of how they rank in terms of their competition. I have a vague recollection that I brought up this issue in a blog post or comment, referring to it as the “village venus phenomenon” whereas women in smaller communities, due to lack of competition, tend to dramatically overestimate their looks. The book I got this idea from was written before the widespread adoption of the Internet, though. Still, I think it matters a lot whether a woman sees other women in real life who are more attractive than her. If she doesn’t, she may easily believe that she is the fairest around.

    2. Yep, I think the “village venus phenomenon” is spot on. Best example I can think of? Hollywood. LA is loaded with aspiring actresses and models from everywhere. They were all the rage in the town they came from. But in Hollywood they are just another pretty face waiting tables and for their big break that’s never coming. Now girls from Brazil are starting to do it, because they know that American men like Brazilian girls. But you know what happens when everyone has the same idea…..

    3. First time I hear the “village Venus” term, but its spot on. It is more or less consistent with my experience in dating during my travels.

      I seem to remember there was a post the forum or at the old blog where someone posted a study (map included) of gender imbalances between regions. Cities skew lightly more female, rural areas more male. The skew might look light on paper looking at absolute numbers, until you realize that a large percentage of people are paired up (married or LTR) and off the dating market (mostly), then the skew among singles is much more pronounced.

      Therefore, its logical that the gender imbalances affect the dating dynamics between regions. Single, small town girls have much less competition. The local guys have less options.

    4. You’re paying for dinner? While I never used it, I know a group of guys who do, and very successfully. Invite them straight to your hotel. Drinks at the hotel bar at most, but only if they insist. If they want anything more than that, move on to the next girl. Big cities are also different. Avoid the midwest, and try to stick to the coasts. Best area in the US is the southwest.

  2. I have some further questions to those of you, who order escorts (I hope I do not come across as some autistic dork, but I fear I do, lol!):

    Do you tell them/their agencies your actual full name? I happen to live in a rather large apartment complex. There is no nameplate next to my door, only the apparent number. I could easily pick her up at a side entrance. (More convenient for the driver, too, as the main entrance is placed at a busy road. Furthermore, the bulidings bell system is quite deficient and its general setup rather confusing, so I might save us both some time and nerves, by just ordering her to meet me at the side entrance.) So she really might not need to know my name and not find it out at all unless I “doxx” myself to her.

    I guess she brings with her some condoms? The standard-sized ones often are a bit too tight for my liking. Not only do they attenuate the pleasure, they also might result in ED at the worst case. (No, I am not particularly hung. I wish.) I still have a few packages of larger ones at my place. I just hope she won’t make a fuss, once I bring this up. I guess request like these can also be adressed beforehand with the bawd?

    What about lube (hopefully not needed, hehe)? I guess I should have some in store just in case?

    I would be very grateful if you could tell me what to expect in regard to above topics. (I think I might be making a mountain out of a molehill here, but still.)

    1. If you are that concerned about your privacy, I simply would not do outcalls at all.
      Personally I don’t give a fuck, it’s not illegal in Austria so they cannot use it to blackmail me or anything like that.
      I think you are way too paranoid here.
      e.g. would you have the same concern if a plumber is doing some work in your apartment?
      Normally they bring condoms and lube. But if you ask them I’m sure they don’t mind using your own condoms.
      Just get in the habbit of asking stuff.

    2. And for the ED, get a viagra or cialis.
      This also makes sessions more enjoyable because you can easily fuck for 40-50 minutes 🙂

    3. @Martin: Thanks!

      “I think you are way too paranoid here.” I guess you are right.

      “Just get in the habbit of asking stuff.” Yeah. I think I still consider all escorts to be walking powder kegs or something like that subconsciously because of this cluster B bitch freelancer from hell I met 5 years ago. Time to move on.

      “And for the ED, get a viagra or cialis.
      This also makes sessions more enjoyable because you can easily fuck for 40-50 minutes 🙂”

      I already have Cialis. I agree, great stuff. I will see my doctor soon to get another prescription.

    4. @Cuong: women are told all the time how amazing they are, they don’t get any feedback on their bad behavior (especially if they are young and hot) it’s no wonder a lot end up crazy.
      In some ways it’s actually kind of cruel, because once they hit the wall, no one wants to have anything to do with them because of their shit personality

    5. This also makes sessions more enjoyable because you can easily fuck for 40-50 minutes

      I think the shortest sessions I’ve had on cialis were at least 90 mins… you just don’t finish on that thing lol.

      And that’s with maximum jackhammer furniture wrecking tempo.

    6. @Martin and Alek: Fuck, I must be an oddball. I recently fucked a massage lady on Cialis and came after less than five minutes. But she was already giving me a massage for 40 minutes or more and I was already horny as fuck and had a rock hard one. As I was fucking her in doggy she was grabbing and tickling my balls from underneath. Since I didn’t like the feeling of the too tigth condom I just let my guard down and came.

      @Cuong Quoc Vu: I have not thought/read much about the discrepancy between men and women when it comes to cluster B disorders.

      But I was referring to hookers (more specifically: independent escorts) in particular above. Aaron wrote one or two articles in which he addressed why the percentage of women with cluster B personality disorders is rather high among club sluts. I think similar reasons hold true for hookers.

  3. I frequent Escorts but prefer to meet them in a short time hotel. I don’t think the doxxing is the issue, its more that in case there was some type of drama, you can just walk out of the room and leave. Hypothetically, if she got all crazy on you (very unlikely in my opinion) you would have to physically through her out of your home. Also, there is a risk she either she steals something or she tells someone to show up later when your at work to break into your place.

    To me the only downsides of going to a short time motel are the extra costs and the extra time needed to commute there.

    Also, I always use my own condoms and bring my own lube (just in case she forgets it).

    1. Don’t you guys have insurance?
      If someone steals my stuff it would be annoying but it would not incur any financial loss on me. Not like I have anything worth stealing anyways. I am a minimalist

    2. @Martin: I for one just wouldn’t want to have these kind of scum fucks in my life regardless of the concrete damage they unleash on it. Even in case of a minor damage negative encounters of this kind could inflict feelings of self disgust, shame etc. in me for dealing with such trash in the first place.

      That’s not very stoic of me, however, it is the temperament nature dealt me and the one I am more or less stuck with.

      @Larry: Maybe moaning once or twice how you never leave your flat because of home office and you feel like the most reclusive hermit might help prevent her getting stupid ideas to begin with. No guarantees, however.

      Maybe get one or two nasty watch dogs? (Only in case you like dogs of course.)

    3. Some of my one-night stands made me feel rather disgusted with myself as I viewed them as rather defective human beings I, in hindsight, shouldn’t have associated with. What more if you pay for that kind of experience!

    4. I am more interested in learning how you live as a minimalist than the escorts part of your post.

      Are you a financial minimalist or an all round minimalist? What do you think is different between you and other people because of you being a minimalist? Care to elaborate @Martin?

      Also, how can a non-minimalist (not a maximalist) like myself be a minimalist?

      I have a good idea how much I want to spend but that is always higher.

    5. @Sampath:

      I probably wasn’t specific enough. I’m not a financial minimalist. I have quite a well paid job, I’m in the top 7% income percentile in Austria.

      Actually for one year I tried to go full blown minimalism, I reduced my spending so that I could easily live on only a 10 hour work week. But I didn’t like it. I was just bored most of the time. So I decided to go back to my normal 40 hour week.

      But when it comes to almost all other stuff, I’m a minimalist.
      I dress very cheaply (if you saw me on the streets, you could easily mistake me for a member of the underclass…I actually I think this is a benefit, no one will get the idea to rob me), I have very cheap furniture, and the whore-mongering is my only hobby that I spend more than a few 100€ per year on.

      I drive a quite expensive car, but I still have it from the time before I was a minimalist, and I plan to get rid of it in the next few years, I don’t really need it and just see it as a waste of money.

      I don’t have any investments or retirement fund. Don’t see a point in this as I see it as very likely that to keep the welfare state from collapsing, a wealth tax will be introduced in Austria quite soon. They are already discussing.
      And this entire mindset of “don’t have fun now so you maybe can have fun when you are old and crippled” doesn’t make any sense to me either.

      Maybe when I’m 50-60 I will have cancer or erectile disfunction or some other shit that will make it impossible for me to enjoy life. So better have fun now in my opinion.

      And the western society is probably going to collapse anyways in the next 30 years, so the retirment plans of “normal” people won’t work out anyways.

      And if I ever get so sick that I would need someone to take care of me, honestly I will just buy a gun and end it. (or go to Switzerland, for 5k€ you can get painless assisted suicide there) I don’t want to live as a vegetable.

      So basically my retirement plan is to keep working until I can no longer work and then end it.
      In Austria in theory we would have a governement funded pension, but I doubt this will amount to much.

      But not owning any stuff is a very freeing feeling. e.g. I could easily decide to move to another country, it would be very uncomplicated.

      But how you can become a minimalist.. I don’t know. It depends what you want. For me this was just natural as I never really gave a fuck about materialistic stuff.
      (e.g. I always saw cars as tools, not as status symbols or anything like that)

    6. don’t have fun now so you maybe can have fun when you are old and crippled

      These are words right out of my mouth. Although, I don’t see why ending your life early can make sense. Although I agree that no one wants live live a vegetable.

    7. Besides, my work is not predicated on me being fit as I make money from a laptop so, I don’t really at all see how ending your life since you can’t work is reasonable.

    8. @Sampath:

      sorry. again I wasn’t specific enough.
      For my work as a software engineer, I only need my mind.

      But the implication is, when I’m no longer able to work, that my mind has degenerated to such a level that I would basically be a vegetable.

      In that case I would prefer to end it.
      Once your brain starts to degenerate, I would even argue that you are not even “you” anymore.

    9. @Martin: 7th percentile, wow! How do you manage to make that much money by only working 40 hours per week? I’d say all people I know in that ball park work at least 60 hours a week.

      I think I personally would farewell with something like a 30 hour work week, i.e. five hours at 6 days. That way I could beat my Sunday blues and also have a decent balance between money and spare time overall. This would provide me with enough spare time to pursue hobbies and maybe even some long-term projects, perhaps even some kind of opus magnum (although I as of know have no idea what this could be in my case).

      (I agree with your life philosphy, by the way: why slave away as a bachelor and save all the good things in live for later if later might never come – especially in our Clown World?)

    10. Let’s use some more precise language please: Martin said he is in the 93rd percentile.

      Those golden years will never come because your quality of life will go down significantly as you age. For instance, you’re not going to party until the early morning hours and rail some club slut in the bathroom who is begging for your cum when you’re 65. You’re likely also not going to write your big novel in retirement. The idea of working for decades to enjoy a few good years is downright laughable. What’s worse is that in some countries, retirement is a complete scam. The German retirement system, for instance, is predicated on there being a much larger number of workers than pensioners, which entails exponential population growth. It’s a pyramid scheme. Of course, retirement worked great for the first few generations who got it, but if you’re a worker in Germany today, you are deluded if you believe that you’ll benefit once it’s your turn.

    11. basically I’m the only guy who has knowledge of quite a few important products of the company I work for.
      Then I got a few good job offers from other companies, and told my boss either the pay me x amount or I will leave. Got a raise to X amount the next day.
      Plan is doing this again in a few years but I need to up my skills, which is my current plan.

    12. @Martin

      I feel really uncomfortable and awkward asking for more. The thought of it makes me nervous already. I do fine stating the amount that I want but when it comes to the possibility of negotiating for more, I tend to rationalise to myself why it’s not justified or not necessary after all. The only workaround I can think of is if I make the request in writing instead of face-to-face or even over a phone call. That would mask my awkwardness and the fumbling way I do it.

      Do you have any interest in leaving Austria to explore other countries? Given your financial means and minimalism.

    13. @Sleazy’s Wife:
      I guess it just comes down to practice.
      I think because men have to learn to be forward socially (or they never get laid) this skillset of going for what you want also transfers to other areas.
      You just cannot afford to be passive as a man.

      But what is also important is knowing how much you are worth.
      For me it was easy to ask for an amount, because I already had other job offers.
      Actually I didn’t really expect them to give me the raise, and I was prepared to leave and get the other job.

      In general the best strategy to get a raise is to get job offers from another company, and then ask for a raise or leave.

      so a lot of this is related to your confidence in the specific area.

      so in my job I’m very confident because I know I’m one of the best they can get, so therefore it’s easy for me to ask for more money.

      on the other side when I approach a women I’m not that confident at all. I mean I can do it but it’s not like I’m 100% convinved that I will be succesful.

      So to summarize:

      – improve skills
      – get job offers
      – get raise

    14. For the moment I prefer to stay in Austria.
      Also not that much into traveling. I did travel a lot when I was younger and I think I got burned out from it.

    15. A pro shouldn’t lose it. What you describe is a possible outcome with regular women, though, and not nearly as uncommon as one might hope.

    16. “Let’s use some more precise language please: Martin said he is in the 93rd percentile.” He did indeed. My bad.

      “The idea of working for decades to enjoy a few good years is downright laughable.” I remember one of my old schoolmates stating something like “Yeah, sigh, life will only start at 65.” when we were freshmen. It sounded ridiculous to me even back then.

      “Of course, retirement worked great for the first few generations who got it, but if you’re a worker in Germany today, you are deluded if you believe that you’ll benefit once it’s your turn.” At this point I do not expect to receive one single cent from this system (coz demographics and shieet).

  4. If you guys remember, I should update you guys on the nail salon MILF I told you about previously. I was shocked to find out that she has two ex-husbands and 3 kids. You guys encouraged me to go for it.

    So after days of pondering and procrastinating…..Bam! California’s shit head governor Gavin Newsom slapped down another lockdown! So I made another appointment before it was too late. I actually enjoy them :). You guys should try it. I probably should have just made a date with her before the pedicure, given that I got her personal cell right away.

    Anyway, I went in and again was struck by how young she looks. The interaction went well again. This time the foot and leg message felt even more sensual. I actually got hard lol. Tried to cover it up with my arm. My finger nails were getting pretty long so she trimmed those. When she was holding my hand for it, I held hers back and even rubbed them. She let me do it. At the end she said in Viet-English, “See you. Text.”. I translated this to English as “See you later. Text me.”

    So I texted her the next day thanked her, and asked her out for lunch. She only responded with “You’re welcome!”
    I responded “No lunch date though?” I texted that it was all good, I understand blah blah. I even said I would still come in for pedicures once the lockdown ends. Then she texted that she was busy that week and would meet up “next time.” I texted her my days off and told her “whenever you’re available.” She texted another “next time” and thanked me for the invite.

    I’m moving on from this one, and exploring other options. It was a learning experience, and I’m glad I didn’t take this as poorly as my past rejections.

    1. Thanks for sharing! My take on this (to be taken with a huge grain of salt as I am quite clueless overall):

      “So after days of pondering and procrastinating…..Bam!”

      You should probably have called her no later than the following day.

      “I probably should have just made a date with her before the pedicure, given that I got her personal cell right away.” Yeah, I guess you did send the wrong signals that way.

      “This time the foot and leg message felt even more sensual. I actually got hard lol. Tried to cover it up with my arm.” Maybe you should not have, lol!

      “I responded “No lunch date though?” I texted that it was all good, I understand blah blah. I even said I would still come in for pedicures once the lockdown ends.” You should have waited for her to reply after asking her again about the lunch date, I think.

      Like I said: huge grain of salt, just my two cents.

      Did you ever do a consulation with Aaron? 1-3 sessions might be all you need to finally overcome (most of) your antigame for good. You seem to have great potential.

    2. Thanks for the response, man. I should clarify a couple things that I did not make clear. I never asked for her # she asked for mine when I called in to make the first appointment (she knows who I am due to a previous aborted appointment, and working next door). Months ago I went in there and wanted a shoulder massage which was much cheaper (apparently they don’t do that there), and turned down the pedicure months ago. Apparently the girls remembered me.

      Also, thanking her for the pedicure and asking her out were two different texts. After hours of her not responding to me thanking her I just asked her out in a separate text. But she only responded to the text thanking her. I took it as a rejection. But then she seemed to keep the door slightly ajar. I don’t know. I suck at this.

    3. And what I meant by “getting her number right away” was her texting me the next day after getting mine.

    4. If I may add the female’s perspective about her seemingly keeping the door slightly ajar and when girls do this in general…it’s not a warm indication. If she wanted something more she would’ve agreed to lunch by now. She may just be too polite and not want to hurt your feelings by telling you no. There’s also of course the desire for free attention, conscious or not. Plus as you’re her customer the incentives are for her to remain lukewarm so that you keep going back.

    5. That’s pretty much what I figured and why I haven’t texted her back since the second time she texted it. I did tell her I’d be her customer either way but that was a lie too hehe. I’d honestly prefer a clear cut answer especially because I had already expressly taken the exchange as a rejection.

  5. ” I don’t know. I suck at this.” You’re not alone 😉

    Not sure if I now understand everything correctly, but I meant to say you should have waited for her to reply after asking her “No lunch date though?” instead of saying something like “I udnerstad, it’s okay, yadayada” (in case you did not: sorry, my bad). (That’s proably not the best wording to check again about meeting up, too.)

    “Also, thanking her for the pedicure and asking her out were two different texts. After hours of her not responding to me thanking her I just asked her out in a separate text.” That’s also a bit too passive/inagressive, I would say. Should have sped things up.

    (Again: everything with a grain of salt.)

    On the up-side: you at least tried to smash her and did not willingly let this opportunity slide. I really think you might make great progress within a short time scale if provided with the right guidance.

    1. You understand everything correctly. I possibly threw in the towel a bit too early. About business she was always prompt and straight forward. Dating is a different story. Perhaps I never should have made it about business at all once I got her number.

    2. When I asked “No lunch date though?” that was actually a rhetorical question. I had already given up. I took her nonresponse as a rejection, hence the rest of the text. Funny thing is that I was almost as concerned about reacting well to the rejection as I was about closing the deal lol.

    3. “Perhaps I never should have made it about business at all once I got her number.” Almost certainly, I would say.

      “I had already given up. I took her nonresponse as a rejection, hence the rest of the text.” Who knows: you might even have a shot now. With dem wahmen you never really know, lol! (However, I do not wanna nudge you into trying again. I’d say it’s her turn now.)

      “Funny thing is that I was almost as concerned about reacting well to the rejection as I was about closing the deal lol.” Hm, intresting. Would you mind to elaborate just a little on that?

    4. I used to have a very unhealthy attitude about rejection. I would beat myself up over it. I would get bitter and angry at the girls. I thought that just because a couple of girls turned me down that I had some deep seeded flaws. I quit hitting on girls for years because of this sick mentality. I literally didn’t know how common rejection was, even for playboy’s. Much of this is the result of years of psychological abuse at the hands of female family members, and some other toxic people who found their way into my life.

      Thanks to Aaron, some other dating coaches, and many guys here, those feelings are gone. I got rejected but I hold my head high. I know I’m an awesome dude and the hotties are coming. I have no animosity towards the nail salon MILF. Who the fuck knows why she rejected me. It is no indictment on me as a man. I can probably get a girl even hotter and certainly younger. So long as I keep trying, and keep my moral up, it’s going to happen. I already have one lined up that I’m going to ask out who has given me heavy signals. This is the first time I’ve ever reacted so we’ll to rejection and I consider it a small personal victory. I’ve learned that for me personally and my personal growth, it’s not whether the girl says yes or no, so much as it is my reaction to the result.

      ONWARD! 🙂

    5. Thanks for elaborating, man. I can relate to your issues – unfortunately as of now I cannot relate so much to you overcoming these issues, but even for me it has gotten better over the years. I am optimistic I can overcome them, too, eventually.

      “I already have one lined up that I’m going to ask out who has given me heavy signals.” Great! Don’t wait too long to ask her out, though. If she already has given you heavy signals, I would argue it’s high time for you to make a move. You do not want her to think of you as disinterested, gay or a pussy. Best of luck! ONWARD!

    6. Thanks man! It’s a little complicated because she is a customer at my place of employment. She is quite a bit younger (probably not a problem) and I’ve seen her with a tall black dude a couple times. Last two times I saw her she was alone though. I struck up a conversation with her that lasted about 5 minutes that I had to break off to get back to work. I also had a chance to get one on one time, but I would have had to leave my coworkers with more work, right in front of them. Unfortunately my opportunities have been through work lately. There are so few options right now due to the pandemic hoax.

    7. @Aaron: I forgot to say: As a German you might have heard the claim “Wer ficken will, muss freundlich sein”. I’m very curious to learn where this originated from. But in my experience, with ‘regular’ girls, following this narrative gets you nowhere. Completely different with hookers (Is this a respecting term? Because I don’t want to offend any pros). If you are ‘nett’ to a pro (assuming she understands your language well enough), chances are high, she will reward that with the best effort she can make servicing you.

    8. This is a joke. You can’t translate it literally. There is a somewhat related one, “Wer sich ziert, der onaniert.” (English: If you don’t dare to approach/make a move, you’ll end up whacking off.) Those phrases are part of banter among men. The first one is often used, or was in my circles, when some dude is complaining about a girl he is seeing. You tell him, “Wer ficken will, muss freundlich sein”, to give him a hint that you’re getting sick of hearing his bullshit. It’s generally understood as a hint to change the topic. Probably, guys on the beta spectrum use that phrase differently and think it means that you have to take all kinds of crap in order to get laid. There are a lot of men in abusive relationships, after all.

  6. I think one unhelpful tendency of mine (and many mentalcels) is to not keep an open might towards grey or even red women because of petty reasons. Let me explain: of course wasting time with chicks that are in the grey or even in the red zone is massive BS. But at least if we are talking social circle game many chicks might turn, i.e. change from red or grey to green later on. (Alek Novy and Assanova both have been trying to hammer this point home, if I recall correctly.)

    Now, I was never really that much into social circle game (my social circles never contained much girls to begin with, let alone single girls). But even the few times I could have met and hooked up with a chick from my (extended) social circle I simply would not do so if she already had rejected (or “rejected”) me prior.

    I remember this hot slavic ginger I was drooling all over during my early twenties. I saw her in several lectures of my minor (her major) and she was friends with one of my old school buddies. I smiled at her at several instances, but she always gave me the “fuck off”-look in return, so I developed quite the resentment against her. Suddenly at my buddies birthday party (ca. two years after I first met her) she was smiling at me as if I was Chad Thundercock himself out of the blue. A few months later my buddy was talking about how they used to be fuck buddies. He then hinted that she had mentioned me to him recently and he could hook me up with her. I refused – because of my ego, a certain disgust (that she would fuck him before she would fuck me) and also because I was still pissed about the “fuck-off”-looks she had given me 2 or 1.5 years prior! And this cick was like my personal HB11 back then! (To clarify: I think I never exchanged one single sentence with her. I just saw her at some parties and in the lecture hall.)

    This is were people blessed with a “beginners mind” as they would refer to it in Zen are really well off. I on the other hand got stuck on my false sense of pride and my ego (I think I even built some kind of an ego around being rejected – call me Lisbon, lol).

    I felt reminded of that episode earlier today. I was about to start my training at the gym and quickly chat up the instructor (I thought I had some chance with and who gave me a broad smile as I was entering the gym) about their new air condition system. I don’t know, but she somehow was behaving disinterested towards me and I felt like she just stalled the chat like I was some major annoyance to her. It was only after I had returned home and started my dinner (i.e. after a certain feeling of saturation had set in) that I regained my emotional equilibrium. The text book opposite of stoic and zen-like. (I do not even wanna start about my petty emotional turbulence once I saw her interacting with some chad later on.) When I was leaving the gym later I did not answer as she said good-bye (two women were leaving right in front of me, and they had just been chating to her on their way out so I was not even really sure if she was adressing me at all).

    I cannot help it, but girls have to be green from the get-go and all the way to the bed room or I will simply not put up with them, even if their resistance is just a little token resistance. Not to say that my instructor had just been exhibiting token resistance towards me, I am no mind reader. Maybe she really only wanted to act friendly towards a customer and realized later she had to make clear there was nothing else to her friendliness. Maybe she could not handle the tension between us. Maybe she does not wanna hook up with a customer or she is in a relationship etc. etc. etc.

    In any case a nonchalant, relaxed attidude might have served me so much better in the long run.
    To top it all off, on my way back from the gym I did not even bother with this cute chick that was smiling at me in front of our letterboxes. I was still pissed and not at all in the mood for further social interactions. Talking about shooting onself in the foot. Bigly!

    Like (I belive) Alek put it so nicely: most incels are mentalcels, i.e. they are underfucked because of their fucked up minds.

    1. Red girls turn into grey or green? That’s new. I thought red means forever red, and rarely grey mixing with dark to turn into green.

      Anyway, I have been reading carefully seductionmyth on wayback machine, and it seems to indicate that male and female pair together due to genetic compatibility, most profound is facial similarity.

      If you insist on red girls can turn to green, then could I ask is there any chance a woman will sleep with a man whose faces have no resemblance to each other?

    2. I have to admit it has been a while since I last read “Minimal Game”, where Aaron was writing about these color zones, so I might get the definition of green/grey/red girls wrong. I was just reffering to the fact that a woman may deceide to turn you down first (maybe even on several occasions) only to fuck with you at some point in the future regardless.


      “Going back to what I figured out, although I got rejected by a lot of women that I was connected to in one way or another, almost all of them came around and later dated, slept with, or openly hit on me. Usually, when you are connected to a woman, and run into her multiple times, rejection usually means “not right now” and not “never”. It’s almost like they need time to think about it, become a little more familiar with you, or wait on their current romantic interest to drop back.

      If you are a decent guy with no major flaws, you will almost win by default, even if you are rejected on more than one occasion by a girl within your social circle. “

    3. @Simplicissimus: I don’t think you miss out on much if you ignore the not so easy girls.
      All the good interactions I had with women were when she made it very easy for me.
      Alek Novy said something like that as well.
      If she makes you work for it, it’s not worth it 99% of the time

    4. Oh and I agree that most incels are mentalcels.
      At least 70% of them.
      I see myself as mentalcel as well.
      While I had some girlfriends, I think I missed out on a lot when I was younger because I was just to shy, too nervous, and generally too much of a nerd.
      At least my high IQ makes it easy for me to make money… so all things considered I don’t even know if I wanted to change myself.

    5. “If she makes you work for it, it’s not worth it 99% of the time” Agreed. I still wished the whole incident did not affect my mood that much and longlastingly.

      “At least my high IQ makes it easy for me to make money… so all things considered I don’t even know if I wanted to change myself.” I’d say you are in a very lucky position already and found a lifestyle that suites you. I might not be motivated to change at all if I found myself in your shoes.

    6. Hhmmm. If a rejection can mean “not right now” then surely a “not yet” or “next time” can mean “not right now.”. I can’t find my copy of Minimal Game, but maybe I still have a chance with the nail salon MILF. I’m not losing any sleep over it though. If she’s interested she has to contact me. I’m focusing on other options.

    7. You can certainly try again at some point in the future, maybe in two months or so. I think it’s a good habit to just message all the chicks that fizzled out at once. Just write, “Hey, how are you doing?”. Most will probably ignore you but one or two may respond and you get another lay. There are certainly much more inefficient approaches to getting your dick wet.

    8. @Simplicissimus: yeah you are right.
      I often think how my life would have turned out if I was just a little bit more succesful with “normal” women.
      Maybe I would be traped now in a marriage to some ugly cunt with 2 kids. Who knows.
      So in some sense I guess I was lucky.

      Just recently I was invited to a meetup with some of my friends from my older social circle.
      There was also a girl, she is ~27 now.

      When I first met her she was like 19 and super hot. Very nice body, very cute face.
      So I tried to date her but she rejected me.
      I wasn’t very pissed, because from what I have observed, she also rejected everyone else.
      Never saw her with a guy. Maybe she fucked some chads, I don’t know.

      But at this party, I barely recognized her.
      She almost doubled her weight. No joke. And she looks much older than she is, because she smokes and drinks a lot.

      She is a prime example to me how a woman was basically handed a good life on a platter, but because she was stupid she totally fucked it up.

      So then I was thinking “woaaah. thank god she rejected me, I realldy dodged a bullet there”

    9. I think a good way to simplify it is that were not talking about pursuing girls who rejected you. That’s dumb of course.

      Just try not to unnecessarily close the door for if when they come around in the future.

      And again I think the main issue is being mentally too invested in each attempt… the way I look at it is.. like asking a male friend if he wanna join you to grab a pizza, and he says no hes not hungry.

      You dont get all angry and never talk to him again lol… 2 weeks later you’re out and about walking past a pizza shop and you’re like I’ll grab a pizza, and hes all in. Because he happens to be hungry at the moment as well.

      I tend to look at chicks hooking up with you the same way. As long as your offer of sex is low-level effort, you won’t take it so personally when they say no, and realize it’s just “no I had pizza today”, not “I would never ever share a table with you ever”

  7. After 2 years, i fucked a hooker, i payed 100€, i fucked her without condom. I creampied her. So good. I feel bad because i needed to pay.

    1. Welcome back!
      100 Euros for a cream-pie sounds like quite a steal, assuming it was an attractive hooker. Then again, I’d have serious reservations if a prostitute lets you do that. Of course, it’s great that you enjoyed this experience. You should still try to get laid the regular way because it’s obvious that you can and it’s also something you’d like to do.

    2. Dude. Im drunk. I can pay you paypal. I need to talk to you on discord. I alteady drink 20 shoots of tequilla. Answer me now

    3. Yesterday 23th of july was my birthday. I completed 31 fuckomg years.

      31 of miserable life

    4. Man, your face definitely fits that “jerk and asshole” stereotype. You have nice stubble. Your nose is a bit too big, but that won’t effect your ability to eat her out.

      What’s your issue? I don’t understand the source of your anguish.

      Sleazy even said that you could run game like Scotty Flamingo. You ought to be the most dumb fucker I’ve ever seen.

      Just firm up and drown in pussies, that’s your destiny.

    5. Dude, next time don’t hit me up at 1:30 a.m. for a consultation session right now. This is not how this works.

    6. Your behavior reminds me of Stelar. But that guy is far more successful than you are. Probably because your attitude reeks of loser vibe. You could be lost admist the sea of pussies, yet are you here wallow in self-pity.

    7. I really needed your help, im drunk, im rich spoiled child who cant get laid. You Said its too late. Im very drunk…. when im drunk i can talk and see stuff that nobody can sense.

      Its over for me. Im very masculine. Aaron is right im very macho man, even police is scared of me. I really look like genuine killer.

    8. We have many conversations over here about you. You have that rare bad boy aura that many men will die fighting for. You just need to behave in a much more consistent way with your behavior. There are guys, among us, who couldn’t pull what you could have pulled off.

      “That rough man that ravages me
      Pierce through my soul with a bare bodkin”

      There, my pathetic poem for you! You deserve much more than you think you do.


    9. Man Lisbon you are way more masculine looking than me. I cannot even grow a beard lol.
      So if I was able to get a cute girlfriend you should be as well.
      And stop the alcohol habbit. This will destroy you in the long run if you drink all the time when you are in a bad mood.

    10. And please get a STD test. If she fucks you without a condom, she will fuck other guys as well.

    11. And what’s wrong with paying for sex? Stelar paid for it as well, even though he got laid with ease.

      You seriously put too much unnecessary pressure on yourself.

    12. Stelar got laid a ton the conventional way as well. He paid for hookers only because of convenience. Lisbon isn’t yet at the point where he has had a lot of sex with regular chicks.

    13. I understand him. When I was a virgin, I also was thinking like that.
      My first sex was with a girlfriend.
      Only after that relationship did I start to fuck hookers.

      The problem is that if you never experience something, you blow it up in your mind to a ridicolous degree.
      I was thinking sex must be like this magic wonderful universe shattering experience.

      Boy was I wrong.
      My first time sex totally sucked. I barely felt anything. I was like “WTF, THIS IS SEX???”

      Now obviously it got a lot better, but in the end it is still just a good feeling, like eating a good steak.

      What also happens a lot is, an incel goes to a prostitute to lose his virginity. But because it is his first time, he is super nervous, has trouble getting it up and so on.
      So the experience sucks.
      And then from this, they conclude that pay sex really is worse than “normal” sex.

      But as I said, it’s very likely your first time will suck, doesn’t matter if it is with a prostitute or not.

    14. @Cuong Quoc Vu: nothing. but it’s hard to get into this mindset when you never had sex with a “normal” woman. I was like that myself. But then I had a few relationships with women, and realized that the sex wasn’t better than the sex I paid for. And the best sex I had was with prostitutes.

      But I think for some men, and Lisbon is probably one of them, it’s not even about the sex, but about the ego.

      They need a women to want them to feel like “real” men, whatever that means.

      I think everyone has that to some degree, because we are social creatures and so we want the admiration of others, but for me personally the enjoyment from pure sex was always higher then trying to make women like me.

    15. Good idea y‘all discussing hookers! Look at my little big experience: When I was in my teens and early twens I had plenty of short term interactions with hot and cute girls but could never get laid, because my view on girls was based on what a mid 30 mother was thinking on how a guy should be to a girl – a totally misleading mindset for me. Not that I just couldn’t get laid, it more and more raised my insecurities. Pathetic thoughts came to mind: If I ever were to fuck a woman, she would undoubtedly recognize that I never fucked before. And it would get even worse: The word would spread to other women, leading to none would want something to do with me.
      My conclusion was: if my sex life was to be rescued, it could only be by starting with hookers secretly. No single woman would hear anything about that. So I lost my virginity on a pro for 30€. And guess what: it wasn’t the magic I expected sex to be but it also was no big deal. So I began to fuck other pros and quickly learned very well, that Sex is a very simple task and big fun. I had Super hot women from various ethnicities and many of them were nymphs that I can tell must have had enjoyed it, too. I no more felt any need to waste my time dating any women. Even concentrated more on all my tech hobbies and just enjoyed life.

      Today I’m approaching 40 and feel saturated. Sex is one of the most simple things – it’s not what people make it up to in their chit chat. Enjoy life!

    16. Where did you bang hookers for 30 Euros? There is an important aspect here: modern women are increasingly pricing themselves out of the (dating) market with their long list of demands. Once a tipping point is reached where shaming men for frequenting prostitutes not really works anymore and prices are low enough, casual dating will disappear. You could easily spend 100 Euros on a date, not putting any monetary value on your time, but if that would get you three sessions with local and reasonably attractive prostitutes, it would be insane to chase after women in real life.

    17. @Aaron your post about women overplaying their hand was real nice about this. Just referencing it if someone new is reading this, they can search for it.

      But yah… I really would love for this to unfold… Hookers get cheaper, and “free” women keep upping their price. It’s going to reach a point where even the cuckiest of cucks will be like “whores make more sense”.

    18. @aaron, my last hooker tour was in 2016 and I don’t know how the prices developed later on. But 30 € was quite common for many „Laufhäuser“ in Stuttgart and surrounding regions. On holiday I talked to an older guy from Hessen to that and he said in Frankfurt it starts with 20 €. But I don’t know.. maybe he was talking about these whores in the streets.

    1. I’m still a virgin, do you know my pain? 🙂
      That’s not an invitation for gay anal, though.

  8. Thanks man! It’s a little complicated because she is a customer at my place of employment. She is quite a bit younger (probably not a problem) and I’ve seen her with a tall black dude a couple times. Last two times I saw her she was alone though. I struck up a conversation with her that lasted about 5 minutes that I had to break off to get back to work. I also had a chance to get one on one time, but I would have had to leave my coworkers with more work, right in front of them. Unfortunately my opportunities have been through work lately. There are so few options right now due to the pandemic hoax.

  9. The just world fallacy is at the core of leftists ideology.

    So I was wondering, why so many people fall for this leftist crap, even a lot of people who have a high IQ. (e.g. I work in tech with a lot of high IQ guys and they are all leftists)

    Then I came to the realization that all of their ideas can be reduced to a single logical error, which is called the “just world fallacy”

    The fallacy is basically that life is fair, everyone will get justice in the end, karma, all that kind of bullshit.

    It is a kind of wishful thinking. I think christianity is mainly the source of this, because according to it we are all created equal before god, and everyone will get what they deserve in the end. If christianity was true, life indeed would be fair.
    And western values are still heavily influenced by christianity.

    So from this error you can deduce more errors, like the belief that everyone is equal.
    If everyone wasn’t equal, than life wouldn’t be fair, so this cannot be.

    e.g. when you start talking about IQ, some of these morons will immidiatelly point out:

    “there are different kinds of intelligence! you cannot measure it! some people have high emotional intelligence!”

    the basic assumption here is, that if you lack in one area, you will be good in another. so everyone can contribute! everyone should have a say in politics!

    (even if something like emotional intelligence exists, there is a strong reason to assume
    it would be heavily correlated with IQ, because IQ is basically an overall measure how effective your brain is at general pattern matching, and emotions are nothing but patterns of human behavior)

    Now of course, in reality it is exactly the opposite. Often people who are good in one area, are also better in other areas. They just got an overall better permutation of genes. And better nutrition, as far as that matters. Or better parents.

    But it’s even more easy to prove that this equality ideology is bullshit:
    The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.
    It’s one of the most supported scientific theories we have.

    And evolution would literally not work if everyone was equal.
    Evolution can only work when there are different levels of fitness between individuals.

    Basically: If life was fair, humanity wouldn’t even exist. We would never have evolved from more primitive species.

    But this just tells you that these morons who think they are oh so educated and scientific and rational, don’t even seem to understand one of our most important scientifc theories.

    1. TL,DR.

      Leftists are not high IQ. Simple. Look at a leftist professor in Gender studies for reference.

    2. @Sampath: I think this explanation is not correct. I know a lot of people with very high IQs who are leftists.

    3. This is only the beginning, though. I think society has been sliding towards a non-scientific future and you can blame people like that for it. The idea of there being objective truth is nowadays seen as an expression of white supremacist thinking as is is clearly discriminatory and exclusionary.

  10. I think as you get older as well and have success with women you realize it really isn’t all that. I remember some hookups I had within the past five years and think to myself, were they REALLY worth the effort? Most probably weren’t lol.

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