Min/Maxing won’t work in dating either

In the comment section to my last article Don’t bother getting body fat down to sub-10 % levels, none other than Alek Novy demolished a reader who presented some rather questionable hypotheses with regards to working out. Even if that guy was right, Alek Novy still wins that argument because if an extra 1% in your results cost you 100% more effort, you are well past the point of diminishing returns.

The term Alek used in that discussion was “min/maxing”. This is a concept used in role playing games, and stands for the idea of minimizing the weaknesses of your character, and maximizing its strengths. This means, for instance, putting all the experience points you gain while levelling up into “intelligence” for a sorcerer, or “strength” for a warrior, while ignoring all other character attributes. You Glass Cannon character will deal a lot of damage, but he will also be extremely vulnerable.

Min/Maxing can be performed in real life too, though. For instance, you may put all your “time” units into body building, at the cost of all other activities you could do, like learning an extra skill in your spare time, which will help you personally or professionally. We have long entered a time in which video games no longer dare to take players accountable for their actions, so difficulty settings get lowered, and any “build” can make it through the end in the slog of an RPG you are playing. Gone are the days where you could end up with a character it is impossible to progress past a certain point because you sunk all experience points into attribute X. I think that if people would experience failure more often, be it in school or even just in fucking video games, they would make less stupid decisions in their life as well.

But where am I going with this? Well, the problem is that I have encountered quite a few people who were min/maxing “game”. You tell them that they should know about their limitations, the caliber of women they can expect to bed, and where to find them. Yet, Joe Average tells you he’d rather work on his “game”, trying to pull women of a caliber he may not be able to get at all. I mean this quite literally. Joe Average, with his average IQ, average height, and average job will never ever ever get a top-shelf woman without paying for it. Heck, he may even experience that top-shelf escorts, which he thinks he can just save up some money for, will refuse his money. (Yes, top escorts may have standards.) Yet, instead of improving his position in life, he focuses on learning “game”. If you now think I’m making this up, you should have been around when Mystery-style “pickup” was in its heyday. Someone should have grabbed those suckers by the shoulders, shaken them and asked them whether they are stupid. Many, quite frankly, were.

A related phenomenon is “OCD partner selection”, for lack of a better term. If you want a partner, and be it only for one night, what do you do? Will you do what Joe Loser does and think that only a genuine Ten will do it for him, or will you be realistic and go for a woman who ticks enough of your boxes? No, I am not at all advocating going for “garbage-tier” women. Let’s say you want a one night stand. All you want is bust a nut in some nice warm pussy. What’s a plausible list? Something like this:

– turns you on
– (Optional: hot enough to make Mike, Jack and Chad jealous when you show them pictures of her the next time they come over to play Super Smash Bros.)

That’s basically it. The reason why this does not imply going for garbage-tier women is that if you are a good-looking dude, you normally will not find women attractive who look comparatively worse. If that doesn’t apply for you, then it’s even better for you as there are many more to choose from.

Okay, let’s say you’ve temporarily graduated from “smashing sloots” and now want a girlfriend. What’s a good list? The situation is no longer as simple, but a plausible one would be:

– you like her
– able and willing to make a living
– parents still together
– younger than you
– (if you want kids: young; as close to the legal age of consent as possible)
– doesn’t waste her money on bullshit (bonus points: steadily saves some money)
– good-looking/cute
– doesn’t bitch or doesn’t bitch too much (in private)
– does not bitch in public
– world-view not too dissimilar
– maybe one or two interests in common

This would be a pretty solid list. Considering typical Western women, it’s not that easy to find a woman that fits that bill. No, not at all, even though it may look utterly unremarkable. Yet, if you’re Deluded Joe, your list would have three dozen bullet points. Heck, guys who were virgins told me about their “exact type”, when they should be concerned about getting laid first. If you only want to fuck your “exact type” you may end up like those old spinsters who are still waiting for that billionaire CEO in his early twenties with a square jaw and chiseled abs who is also a complete cuck. If you want a girlfriend, then go meet a few cute girls, and if there is mutual interest, and she seems like a reasonably good candidate, just give it a go. That way, you’ll get plenty of experience, and even if things don’t work out, you’ll have learnt a lot for your next relationship. On the other hand, dudes who claim they only want the best are likely to resort to porn and a bottle of lube until the cows come home.

In case some moron trolls are eager to comment below that I’m apparently telling guys to “settle”: dudes, the caliber of women you attract is basically the same because you’re not even going to register women who aren’t at your level, and you won’t get much attention of women who are above you in terms of looks and/or social status. If you’re an unattractive dude with nothing going for him, then no “Ten” will ever daydream of sucking your dick. If you want to bang hotter women, you’ll need to work on your foundation: looks, status, money, and accept your limitations. Or do you think The Donald fucked an army of uglos until he met Melina? Most certainly not. He probably banged hundreds of models, probably doing little more than pointing at his dick and telling them to say hello to daddy.

What do you think? Let me know in the comments below, but keep the comment policy in mind.
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39 thoughts on “Min/Maxing won’t work in dating either

  1. I love this RPG metaphor, it’s really good for illustrative purposes. In terms of minmaxing game vs being sane… The following would be a neat illustration. Take two physically identically attractive guys with each having 3000 hours to invest over a 3 year period…

    Guy A:

    – Invests 1500 hours in studying pickup materials, seminars, theory, flowcharts on when to text, what responses to give, voice tonality differences etc etc…
    – He also invests 1500 hours in cold-approaching, texting, and roaming clubs and streets.

    Guy B:

    – Invests 100 hours in studying minimal game type of information, i.e. the basics that are responsible for 95% of your results
    – Invests 400 hours in working out (that’s 3 times a week for years, enough to get you 90% of your lifetime possible gains if done right)
    – Invests 200 hours in learning to couple dance
    – Invests 500 hours in courses that double his overall income over those 3 years
    – Invests part of that additional income in better clothes
    – Invests 600 hours in a hobby/niche that involves lots of women or socializing
    (utilizes those hours to practice flirting skills, make female friends and build status in that niche, 600 hours is enough to get into the top 5% of niche, status-wise, especially if he invests part of that additional income there)
    – Invests 600 hours in carefully chosen venues that are related to his hobby or niche, or places where he can take the friends he made in that niche (where he has high status), meets more women there

    I assure you, the second guy will get laid way more

    That’s on top of having a more fullfilling life, making more connections, being happier etc… The first guy is minmaxing game. For him “minimale game” isn’t complex enough. He will spend 1500 hours studying the nuances trying to squeeze every last percent.

    And you know, the first guy might even “get better game”… but he will still get laid less. The minmaxer has a worse physique, less leverage (Guy B walks in already having status with all those female friends he made from having hobbies). He has less money to invest in logistics… etc etc…

    He can’t use other ways of meeting women (his only tool is the cold approach)… Whereas the second guy meets women through friends (the ones he made in the hobby), through the hobby itself. He also learned how to dance, so he can meet women by going to dancing parties. Sure he “only” know what to say in 95% of situations rather than 99%. Sure sometimes he will “lose” a girl because he didn’t have the perfect comeback. Overall though he’s getting laid more… Coz he has more things going for him.

    1. And you know, the first guy might even “get better game”

      As defined by myopic OCD gamers that is. The first guy might be better in cold-approaching the shitty seven-in-a-tight-skirt at a club. He will “hook more sets” and get more of those false positives that don’t mean shit. He will “destroy more shit tests” from the wannabe-ten-butisnt-six at the club. But he’s lacking 7 other forms of leverage and good grasp on other contexts that the first guy has.

      Sure the second guy will go into a club and only do the “easy stuff”. Guy B has a lot of female friends he made from his hobbies… so he walks into a club with a group of female friends. Spends the night having fun and dancing with his own girls… Some other girl notices him and gives him the eye or starts hovering near his group. He picks up that girl. You know “the long hanging fruit”.

      On that same night, the minmaxer can go into the club, and do all the “hard stuff”… Like approach 30 women who gave no signal and pick up one of them after battling through tons of “shit tests”. So what?

      That’s like a guy bragging he got his body from compounds and not “sissy machines”. It doesn’t matter if the end result is the same.

  2. On Settling for girls who aren’t a ten

    …I’ve never been with a ten. To me a ten is a girl who:

    a) has a ten body
    b) has a ten face
    c) has perfect skin

    But I’ve been with plenty of almost-tens

    I’ve been with many girls who have that ten-face. I have been with many girls who have that ten-body. So I know what it’s like to hold a sweaty girl with the perfect body in your arms. I know what it’s like to be caressing a perfect face.

    What’s the point?

    I doubt there’s anything magical about the combination. Whereas if you get a girl who’s got both, all of a sudden your orgasms will be better or you’ll be happier or what not. But that’s all a “ten girl” is, a girl who was happy to have both.

    Same goes with unperfect bodies and faces

    I’ve been with girls who’s face is “almost a ten face”. I’ve been with girls who “almost have a ten body’. Let’s call those a “nine body” or a “nine face”.

    Where am I even going with this!?!?

    I once actually introspected on this. Like I’d meet a ten somewhere, and go “ok, so what’s so difference between her and the last nine I had” And then I realized how absurdly small the difference was.

    The “ten girl” only has a more “hollywood-like nose” and darker tan… That was the only difference between her and the not-ten.

    If you think about it. This is kind of absurd isn’t it? Will your life be substantionally different if your girl doesn’t have the perfect tan or perfect hollywood nose?

    Compare the girls you see as tens vs the ones you see as nine… you’ll find the differences are equally silly…

    What about nines vs eights

    The same applies…

    If you compare a girl with a nine body, vs one with an eight body… it’s like one has a tight ass, and the other one doesn’t. I introspected on this too. I compared the eight-body girls to any nine-body girl I had been with.

    And the difference was what? A tighter ass or slightly skinnier legs or tighter boobies. And you know what, this difference you don’t actually experience in actual sex. You don’t see it. Like in the heat of the moment, you won’t see “oh that’s an imperfectly shaped thigh, should be tighter”. And you don’t ever notice the ass in actual sex as much as you do when she’s in clothes. It matters more in clothes than it does in sex.

    I’m ranting, I know

    What I want to say is that in the real world, an “eight” (your definition of an eight) will give you the same satisfaction as a ten. Never been with an all-around ten myself. But I have been with ten-faced girls and ten-body girls. It was just as good as being with eight-body girls or eight-face girls. So I can make that guess pretty confidently… I doubt there’s anything magical about the combination (ten face + ten body).

    And the good news is that most everyone reading this blog can have an eight. No, not every day, no not every eight you meet… But you can build up a scenario where you can regularly get eights into your life quite easily.

    If you apply the guy B strategy, you can have eights, even if you were a “5.5” yourself starting out

    No, not because of game, but because of the other factors. We’ve discussed it before on this blog. For example a top 5% physique will get you as much as 1-2 points extra.

    That itself takes you from 5.5 to a 7. Then status bumps your league on top of that… so with the status on top of that… you become an “eight guy”… especially with the help of good fashion and clothing.

    And then there’s the most important factor. Taste variance. You might be an “eight” as an average. But to some girls you will be a six, and to some a nine. Why? Coz taste varies.

    tl;dr;

    Most average guys* can get eights. Which in practice is just as good as getting tens.

    *- Meaning genetically average as a starting point. You move that rating up with status, physique, fashion etc…

    Just wanted to rant this out, in case someone misunderstands what Aaron is saying and gets all those negative connotations about settling. This is more like saying:

    “It’s ok, I don’t have to be a billionaire.” It’s not like saying “It’s ok to be homeless”.

    And yes, a guy who wants a perfect all-around ten (face, body and personality) is like a guy wishing to be come a billionaire with his very first business idea.

    1. And yes, a guy who wants a perfect all-around ten (face, body and personality) is like a guy wishing to be come a billionaire with his very first business idea.

      And you will never be a billionaire, not with your first idea or your 879th business idea. Doesn’t matter how many business books you read and how much business networking you do etc etc etc…

      You will also most likely never get a ten (real ten). Doesn’t matter how much you practice or how much study this subject. Or even how many improvements you make.

      But both of these realizations are ok.

  3. This was a great article and commentary by Aaron and Alek, which sort of underscores the saying that “common sense is not that common”. At my local gym, I see a number of people who seem to live there, and take three group classes a day, plus an hour or more for an individual workout. They are all in pretty amazing condition, but it seems unlikely they have much else going on their lives.

    Incidentally, can anyone explain the concept of “shit tests”? A lot of forums go on about them and how to counter them exhaustively. The part that I do not get is if the woman actually likes you, why on earth would she go out of her way to insult you or make negative remarks about you? The shit test only makes sense if the woman either is not into you, and/or is also not particularly pleasant at the best of times. Either way, why “plow through them”?

    1. “The part that I do not get is if the woman actually likes you…”
      –> she doesn’t in the first place. PUAs can’t read red/yellow/green light. Too obsessed with their theories…

      “why on earth would she go out of her way to insult you or make negative remarks about you?”
      –> exactly – there is no reason, besides a bit of playful teasing, which is flirting in my book, but it’s harmless and nothing I can’t turn around with my charm.

      “Either way, why “plow through them”?”
      –> correct, there is no reason if it’s beyond “harmless teasing/flirting”.

      As you said, “common sense is not that common”.

    2. I think it’s just how you view things. I believe that women don’t shit test me. But if I am to actually have transcripts of my interactions with women – I’d find a ton of “shit tests”.

      What i’m saying is that… if you don’t view the world that way, you won’t see them as “shit tests”. Or something that is a “cunning move” on her part that you need to outsmart.

      I actually don’t view them as shit tests, but her seeking reassurance. I don’t see her as trying to “one up me”… I see it as her being insecure and needing assurance. So I just answer in whichever way would reassure her.

    3. “I think it’s just how you view things. ”
      I agree.
      Would you say that a certain behaviour of yours provokes more or less “shit tests”?

  4. Good post and I enjoyed Alek’s rant. One thing that did bother me is that Alek suggests making female friends. I disagree. Why would a man who is sexually attracted to a woman settle for a platonic relationship? I refuse to be Mommy’s little helper or a sounding board. I can be friends with a fat and/or ugly woman, but if pretty girls do not exist in her social circle, why bother?

    1. That’s one of the most absurd things I’ve heard. It’s so absurd and alien to me that I can’t even relate. I actually have only 2 “close friends” who are male. About 40-50 female “friends” (these are people you go to places to have fun with), and about maybe 2-3 natural friends (also, not close friends, but “friends” you go together with to places to have fun)

      Like I so can’t relate to your thought pattern that I can’t even… Like I don’t know how to relate. The only thing I can guess you’re focused on the “make friends part”. I’m guessing you assume pretend to like a girl’s personality and pretend to like her interests just so you can be “friends”.

      That’s my only guess. In that case let me rephrase it differently. How about “female accomplices in crashing parties” instead of “female friends” or “activity partners that happen to be female”?

      Like i don’t discuss politics with them, or do anything else except go out places with them. It’s very nice going to a place and having a circle of estrogen around you. It’s nice.

    2. I’m still scratching my head. The only guess I can make is that you’re probably imagining “effort” to keep or get these friendships.

      No, you just go out with them. It’s win-win. They want to be around a guy when going out. I get to be surrounded by chicks and have fun, whether with them or coz I meet other chicks through them, because of the attention/whatever.

      There’s no “effort” involved in it. Literally the entire friendship is mutually beneficial.

    3. Alek, it’s difference in culture I think. The setup you describe is perfectly normal in Eastern Europe (my reference is Bulgaria). It’s less common in central Europe in my view.
      The average good-looking-guy’s lay count in Eastern Europe seems to be higher, too, but this can have other reason’s.

    4. This may well have something to do with the average Eastern European woman being slimmer than Western ones, which presumably motivated guys better than the “healthy at any size” push we are getting barraged with.

    5. @Neutral

      I honestly have no idea what you related about. I was talking about this:

      I refuse to be Mommy’s little helper or a sounding board.

      You don’t need to be a girl’s helper or sounding board in other to be “going out friends”. If you enter a niche, spend some months talking to everyone… eventually you’ll have people to go out with. No sound boarding or or little helping required… just send them an event on fb, and some will be game.

      Eventually you build up a circle of females to go out with. It works the same way in america, central, western europe etc…

    6. If you enter a niche, spend some months talking to everyone

      And I’m not very talkative. Just basic courtesy, how are you, what’s up, or talking about the niche itself. It’s enough to “befriend” people. Some of whom will want to hang out together outside the niche too.

      Experts online make it out to be more complex than it is to sell books.

    7. I read your responses to the others and better understand your viewpoint. Still, I have my doubts. What about women who tell you that you are not their “type” or are a “nice guy”? How do you benefit from hanging out with a woman that has rejected you?

    8. What about women who tell you that you are not their “type” or are a “nice guy”?

      a) I have never ever in my entire life had a chick tell me I was a “nice guy”… asshole is what I get most commonly or in my language “you’re a piece of thrash, you know that”…

      b) Banged plenty of chicks who told me I wasn’t their type. What’s your point?

      How do you benefit from hanging out with a woman that has rejected you?

      The same benefits you get from hanging out with a male friend who rejected your suggestion of going for pizza. Like your question to me is absurd. The two are completely unrelated. Like literally your questions are absurd.

      Like watch this, what if I go out

      A) alone with 1 male friend
      vs
      B) I go out with that 1 male friend and 2-3 chicks who haven’t fucked me (yet*)

      Do you honestly not see how scenario B is MORE beneficial than scenario A? Like how do you not see the benefit in B? I don’t get it. Your thinking is weird.

      Like i’m constantly sexual with chicks. Just because they haven’t jumped on my cock (yet), doesn’t mean they won’t eventually. It’s like offering pizza. It’s not “rejecting me”. They’re on a diet at the moment.

      And just because they haven’t said to the pizza yet, I should go out with a male friend only (scenario A). Like you SERIOUSLY don’t see the benefit of scenario B? It makes all your outtings more fun, and easier to meet other chicks etc etc… They bring their girls over etc…

      How do you benefit from hanging out with a woman that has rejected you?

      You CAN’T hang out with a chick who’s rejected you. If a woman rejects you (as a whole being) then she’s not going to hang out with you.

      If your definition of “rejected you” is “she said no to sharing pizza”, then your problem is with how you define rejection. She didn’t “reject you” as a human being, she’s just on a diet and not into pizza (casual sex).

  5. Hey Alek,

    what if you find some of these friends attractive? I find it hard to maintain a friendship or platonic relationship with such women because I’m always secretly hoping to bang them.

    1. I’ll be honest. The question itself is absurd, because that’s not the reality I live on.

      Like I am openly sexual with chicks I want to bang. The fact she doesn’t want to bang has no bearing on us hanging out. Why would it? I don’t get this?

      It is possible to openly be sexual with girls who aren’t ready to bang you at-the-moment. In fact, they like hanging out even more for some reason. Like if a chick knows you find her fuckable, she wants to hang out with you even more. In fact she’s more likely to help you get laid.

      And here’s a hint. When women don’t want to bang, a lot of the time it’s just “not at the moment”. At least half of my lays came from chicks who weren’t DTF when we first met, but on some night somewhere later on (3 months later, 6 months later, years later) they got horny and initiated the sex themselves.

      And before someone misreads it… this is not you “being friendzoned for 6 months”, that’s a fucking stupid concept.

      The trick is you have not care. I mean, like here’s the best analogy.

      When you ask your male-friend to go for a pizza, and he says no… do you stop hanging out with him? I can’t be friends with him because he said no to pizza? Does it mean he’ll never say no to pizza? What if he’s on a diet for the next 7 months, and then HE is the one who suggests pizza himself?

      Did he friendzone you because he refused pizza? Like how fucking stupid is that…

      That’s how i view sex, it’s like pizza. Like if I offer sex to a female friend, and she says no. It’s got the same “weight” as if a male friend said no to pizza. Doesn’t mean I won’t offer it again. Doesn’t mean she won’t offer it again. You have to not view it any differently than going for pizza… really.

      I find it hard to maintain a friendship or platonic relationship with such women because I’m always secretly hoping to bang them.

      The reason you have difficulty is twofold:

      1) Because it’s a secret. Be openly sexual
      2) You should be banging plenty of her friends, sisters, cousins in the meantime

    2. There is also the case that girls keep you around just in case things with their current boyfriend go sour, and suddenly things go very quickly from “friend zone” (but not in the PUA sense) to something infinitely more tangible.

    3. Did he friendzone you because he refused pizza? Like how fucking stupid is that…

      You hang out with him for reasons other than sharing pizza. That’s why it’s not an issue.

      “being friendzoned” is only a thing if you’re hanging out with a chick with NO OTHER benefit outside “potential romance some time in the future”.

      But if the hanging out itself is valuable, then you’re not being friendzone… you have a female friend who offers many benefits… including setting you up with her friends, being your social proof when you go out, etc etc… and if you’re openly sexual, she’ll bang you eventually. But that’s just a random bonus. You should have banged her friends and relatives anyway.

    4. When you ask your male-friend to go for a pizza, and he says no… do you stop hanging out with him? I can’t be friends with him because he said no to pizza? Does it mean he’ll never say no to pizza? What if he’s on a diet for the next 7 months, and then HE is the one who suggests pizza himself?

      This is where my pizza analogy applies.

      When you ask your male-friend to go for a pizza, and he says no… do you stop hanging out with him? I can’t be friends with him because he said no to pizza? Does it mean he’ll never say no to pizza? What if he’s on a diet for the next 7 months, and then HE is the one who suggests pizza himself?

      Her being in a commited relationship with a provider is just like my friend being on a diet. My friend is currently refusing my offer of a pizza coz he’s on a diet. She’s refusing the sex coz she’s on a sexual diet (relationship).

      Both of them will either break the diet, or accept once they’re off the diet. My friend is a good friend even though he’s on a diet. I still have all the other benefits of friendship despite the fact he’s won’t join me for junk food.

      Same with female friends. I get all the benefits despite them not wanting to join me for junk food (casual uncommited sex is like junk food for them).

    5. Sure, woman will get flattered if you show interest in her, but if she sees you hitting on other chicks she will get turned off. “Nobody likes being 2nd choice” etc…

      So whats the catch here? You are openly sexual yet women are still flattered and hook you up with their friends?

    6. Sure, woman will get flattered if you show interest in her, but if she sees you hitting on other chicks she will get turned off. “Nobody likes being 2nd choice” etc…

      There’s a difference between “hitting on chicks” and “being openly sexual”. It’s kinda of a nuanced difference.

      One is “so, you wanna bang, let’s bang? common let’s bang”, the other one is “you know if you ever wanna get frisky, i’m game, wink wink”. That’s another reason that there’s no “rejection”, since you never push to the point where it would be a case of “hitting on them”. It’s more like highly sexual flirting.

      It’s hard to capture in words. But you realize that flirting and hitting on someone are different things? Being “openly sexual” is in between the two.

    7. I imagine openly sexual means flirty + going a little bit overboard on touching (still not touching intimate body parts).
      In any case you are showing sexual interest in respectful manner so girls feel comfortable.

      Nonetheless, I’m having hard time comprehending how your shotgun approach to flirting doesn’t alienate your female friends. In my reality girls you are working on don’t like seeing you flirt with other girls.

      Maybe shotgun approach doesn’t turn them off if they look at you as a badboy/ONS guy rather than a dating prospect.

  6. To the readers following this blog…. Don’t.

    If you have a differing opinion than these two you won’t be treated with respect. Mostly because of Alek’s deluded narcissism.

    It’s not an 80/20 or 100/1 outcome. It’s the opposite. If you’re already going to the gym every other day for an hour or two and cooking a total few hours a week that’s all you need.

    To say I was “demolished” is not true. Both of you were unable to provide a concrete rebuttal against my claim.

    1. Thanks for providing further amusement, “John”. I’ll see you under a different pseudonym soon.

    2. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

      You were the one claiming that Aaron’s advice is wrong because you claim “it’s optimal” to spend your fucking life in cutting in bulking periods.

      You never provided proof that there was “worthy” return on this strategy. I proved that it costs you more. You have to prove the return on that larger investment is worth it. You provided no numbers, no studies nothing. You cannot even show what the additional muscle-gaining benefit of a “cut&bulking lifestyle” is over an “be attractive all-year round lifestyle”.

      I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. I’m saying you can’t even give us this number.

      Aaron’s advice would have you be looking attractive year-round, in a state that’s VERY easy to maintain

      Your advice would have the person spend MOST OF THE YEAR in one of two states:

      A) Hungry and struggling to cut
      B) Fat and unattractive

      This part is a fact. THESE THINGS are true. It’s up to YOU to prove that these sacrifices are “worth it” and would result in “equally massive benefits in turns of additional muscle gain over the year”.

    3. If you’re already going to the gym every other day for an hour or two and cooking a total few hours a week that’s all you need.

      You’re being a manipulative cunt again. This is what AARON says. Don’t pretend to be the balanced one now. Your original comments are still here for evidence.

      That’s now what you came in here with.

  7. I like this type of thinking a lot!

    Now, I don’t know if this is off topic, but could we perhaps collect valid sources on other domains of life to reach the most reward with the least ammount of effort?

    f.e. we’ve mentioned dating and fitness, but what about trading stocks? Just to state an example.

    1. While I fully agree that one can overdo stuff, the initial setup period requires investment in forms of time, energy and money. People skills need time, getting a feel for exercises & nutrition take time and chart reading (or any other approach, e.g. balance sheet analysis, news reading, etc.) takes time, too. The question is just how to most effectively set up your life to shorten these initial periods as much as possible.
      Example: If your work consists of working with a computer in an office, you will get some people skills, but your exposure to people is nowhere close to the one of a waiter.
      The waiter, will have no time to check the charts every 30 minutes. Maybe he’ll take a different approach (higher time frame), or he’ll sooner or later switch job.
      The “least amount of effort” is a point AFTER routine has been established.

    2. > trading stocks?

      Not gonna advise you to not try. But I tried and failed(though temporarily succeeded). Its extremely hard and I spent so much time on it with barely a result. Its definately not a low effort venture.

      The easiest “dumb” not stressless strategy is to buy china index ETFs (very low PE and surpass the USA this century – a rush of hot money into China is possible)

      All I have to show for the 20.000 hour invested is a holy grail that needs tweaking, as it worked perfectly before 2015 but now has disappointing results and a few other promising systems for which im undercapitalised. but at least its entertaining to watch once a prediction does partially pan out or see the smart guys at CBs and HFs being idiots as the bond bubble bursts. But all other parts of life were neglected, and lost my initial investing capital. its a tradeoff.

      So two options: lets say you find something that works, you wont be able to take advantage of it because going through the offers exhausts capital/
      You dont sacrifice the time or have the luck to find something that works. though you have the capital because you invested in your basics.

  8. I would like to point out this thread to readers, specifically regard to this part of Novy’s post:

    “There’s a difference between “hitting on chicks” and “being openly sexual”. It’s kinda of a nuanced difference.

    One is “so, you wanna bang, let’s bang? common let’s bang”, the other one is “you know if you ever wanna get frisky, i’m game, wink wink”. That’s another reason that there’s no “rejection”, since you never push to the point where it would be a case of “hitting on them”. It’s more like highly sexual flirting.

    It’s hard to capture in words. But you realize that flirting and hitting on someone are different things? Being “openly sexual” is in between the two.”

    Here is the link:
    http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?6030-Picking-up-women-vs-meeting-women

    Cobi is someone I can relate to at a deeper level than other posters on that fucking website, partly because my friend and my most influential teacher in the field of picking up girls is a tall black guy, like him.

    About two years ago when I was in Shanghai, I picked up girls in Shanghai on the street while riding motorbikes (a good case that fits into the so-called cold approach). My mode was very direct and bold, courageous and daring, just like the master (No need to waste times as you know that most girls won’t be into you anyway). But I can also relate very well to the part Alek calls “being sexual”. It relies more on non-verbal communications. I have been to plenty of college parties and clubs, and this is how top status guys and girls trade sexual interests to one another. This is where disaster falls onto guys who buy into PUA thinking. They typically hit on girls directly, which then creep girls out. They also don’t understand that for most chicks in that circle, they are just secondary or tertiary options. It is those lions on top of the hierarchy that will enjoy their pussy juice (on the condition that these guys are handsome, like my Canadian DJ’s friend).

    1. My mode was very direct and bold, courageous and daring

      You can be SUPER direct without hitting on chicks. Here’s the distinction. Let’s use my previous terminology to make explaining things easy.

      http://blog.aaronsleazy.com/index.php/2017/01/01/the-open-thread-january-2017/#comment-1192

      Example of hitting on a chick:

      To hit on a chick means that she’s showing level 2 interest, and you’re showing level 7 interest in an obvious way… this is what chicks complain about when they say they’re annoyed at being hit on. You’re “putting her on the spot” and all her friends know you’re making a level 7 offer. You’re doing it too obviously.

      “Obvious” – it means people standing next to you know what you’re doing. In fact the entire room knows.

      You can do level 7 on her without “hitting on her”

      – If she’s showing level 2 interest, and you’re doing the “you know if you ever want to fuck me, I’m down” type of flirting… that’s not hitting on her and won’t annoy her.

      I don’t have a term, so I’ll just use a term I’ve seen in the community “sub-communication”. It’s not out in the open for everyone to listen in on, but you’re still communicating with her. You’re still communicating “level 7 interest”, but it’s like “a secret just between the two of us”.

      People standing next to you in the group can’t tell. In fact you can do this with multiple chicks in a venue and they will all be flattered… as opposed to when you hit on 10 chicks and you’re “that guy”

      And then sometimes the level lets you be super-aggressive fast

      Sometimes a chick will move so quickly from level 2 to level 3 to level 4, that you can “just tell” that she’d be ok with an obvious level 7 move. Or sometimes she’ll give you “the look” and then you can just do an obvious level jump.

      Like you can directly go for a much more aggressive move and she’ll love it. She’ll get wet, not annoyed. She won’t mind having you fondle her ass in front of her friends.

      There’s nothing courageous about doing obvious level 7 on a level 2 chick

      That’s just a lack of experience and reading ability. It isn’t brave, just un-calibrated.

  9. Just to clarify on this point:

    “There’s nothing courageous about doing obvious level 7 on a level 2 chick

    That’s just a lack of experience and reading ability. It isn’t brave, just un-calibrated.”

    When I say bold and courageous, I am talking about approach girls ON THE STREET. When I am talking about subcommunicate your sexual intent with discretion on high priority, I am talking about doing so in a social circle, full of people who are friends of friends of you. A cold approach requires a direct bold attempt with a single focus to screen girls for sexual interest, this is hitting on girls. There is absolutely no point to chatting with girls, mingling, asking about their lives. The point of approaching girls in such an environment is to screen, that’s all. Thus, in perhaps 20 mins, I might have approached 10 girls, and might or might not end up taking one on my bike. The approach is fast, brief, and to the point. Waiting for them to send signal is pointless either, as they most often won’t see you coming.

    Thanks for your further clarification, I also start to get a feel on your style of writing, as getting familiar with someone’s style is quite important to not misintepret them.

  10. I agree with your whole post above though. It does require a guy to have good social skills and sexual experience. If you find yourself uneasy when flirting, touching, or conveying any degree of sexual intensity, then you are very likely to not being comfortable with your sexuality. This is mostly an issue of sexual inexperience. The goal, thus, for these guys, to get laid via different routes (aka escorts, as mentioned elsewhere on this blog and older blog).

  11. A further comment on what kind of fuel that propels me to approach 20-40 girls in 1 hour of riding a bike or walking on a busy Shanghai street (mostly tourist district), it was pure horniness. That’s it. Talking to a girl you find hot could even you make have a hidden boner. Thus masturbation isn’t your friend here since it releases the sexual valve. Learn not to, and let that sex drive leads you forward towards girls.

    When I am horny, I am an instinctively brave and courageous.

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