After the seduction community collapsed, which I am very happy to have played a major role in (cf. Debunking the Seduction Community), several follow-up communities sprang up. An existing one got an influx of people, too. The existing community that absorbed part of the old seduction community is MGTOW, i.e. Men Going Their Own Way. MGTOW as a movement has a bit of a split personality. The old guard consisted largely of men who had enough of women, which may or may not have been due to the legal ramifications of getting involved with the ‘fair sex’. After the seduction community collapsed, plenty of guys who never got anywhere with women decided that women aren’t all that and started to wear their sour grapes as a badge of honor. They couldn’t get women, but that’s fine because they don’t want them anyway, just like Aesop’s fox is not interested in the juicy grapes that make it salivate.
A
Some people graduated from the Red Pill to the Black Pill. Others moved on from the Seduction Community to the Black Pill directly. In short, the Black Pill may sound familiar if you have read my book Minimal Game, in which I stress the importance of looks, status, and money, and give concrete suggestions on how to improve, in addition to laying out a concise and effective plan for getting girls. The Black Pill is not so much about improvement, though. Instead, often people exhibit a downright defeatist attitude. They think that because they aren’t 6’6″ with a 7-figure paycheck and an 8″ cock, they have no chance at all in the dating market. Of course, I am exaggerating here.
I applaud the Black Pill for its honesty. There are some guys who outright tell you that they are very short and therefore never got anywhere with girls. Sure, if you are a guy with a not-so-regal height of five feet, you will have your work cut out for you. Then there is the issue about race, which is also openly discussed. I came across an account written by a black guy who openly discussed some of the experiences he has had, realizing that a good-looking white guy tends, ceteris paribus, to win out over a good-looking black guy. Again, in the Seduction Community and the Red Pill, people would tell you to work on your “inner game” to overcome your “limiting belief.”
Yet, I have also come across people who dramatically underestimate their looks. These days, we are bombarded with pictures of good-looking people, which can make even an above-average looking man feel insufficient. Yet, that is a gross distortion. Sure, if you are not in the top quartile in terms of looks, your chances for no-strings-attached hookups are limited. However, I find it baffling when a young guy tells me that he thinks he’s doomed to be “forever alone” because he does not have model-caliber looks. In particular, I am thinking of a recent client I had, a 19-year-old guy whom I thought to be really good-looking. I’d say his face was about an 8.5, he’s in great shape, too. His height is holding him back a bit as he’s “only” 5’10”. You can work on your height a bit. Fixing your posture is one thing. Then, getting shoes with a small heel and possibly inlays can make a big difference.
The hint about using inlays is not even the main issue. Instead, it is that young guys in their teens and early 20s are in a particularly difficult spot. In high-school, they may have gotten some attention from women roughly their age, but once people move on to university, the competition opens up. Suddenly, that hot
Another issue is that a guy’s life can improve dramatically within a few short years. That same freshman, now a senior or a recent graduate, suddenly finds himself doing a lot better with younger women because he is now reaping the benefits those older guys used to reap. Of course, if you get a decent career going, your dating life can dramatically improve. For instance, I know guys who went from having long dry-spells — some went years between random hookups — to going through ten, twenty women a year because suddenly they get a lot of matches on online dating sites. They were the same guys, but their circumstances changed. Heck, they even ended up looking worse because they work so much, but a solid middle-class income and an apartment in a trendy location will get you some attention if you’re in your mid-to-late twenties and you live in a city bursting with young and not so young hoes. True, these guys don’t always bang the hottest women, but for
Even though looks, money, and status matter a lot, it is not the case that you are competing against guys who are 10s in every single category. At least normally you don’t. This means that with a bit of work you can dramatically improve your chances with women. This does not mean that if you are genuinely disadvantaged, say you suffer from dwarfism, a decent paycheck, a nice suit and a big biceps will get you laid. No, you most likely will be screwed. However, those people, the genuinely hopeless, are just a few
From what I gather, the Black Pill is surprisingly vibrant. For instance, on a recent stream by FaceandLMS, a YouTube channel in that niche, possibly the biggest one, had more than 700 viewers. At the same time, Rollo Tomassi was streaming as well. He is big in Red Pill circles. His books have probably sold hundreds of thousands of copies. In short, he’s a big name. FaceandLMS is a complete nobody. He doesn’t have a website. He doesn’t sell books or
Did you enjoy this article? Excellent! Here are some further steps to consider:
1) If you want to read more from Aaron, check out his excellent books, the latest of which are Sleazy Stories II and Meditation Without Bullshit. Sleazy Stories III will be released in April 2019.
2) Aaron is available for one-on-one consultation sessions if you want honest advice.
3) Donations for the upkeep of this site are highly welcome.
What if you are 5’9″ and 64kg with receding hairline?
sir,
half the battle is if own your look and are cool with it (i.e. “self-assured”) (enough) women will be too.
I would also suggest you ask yourself – do you see guys who you describe with these qualities with mates?
So an ugly Danny DeVito without money will score high quality pussy, as long as he is cool with himself and accepts himself for what he is?
I never said that and wouldn’t say that.
5’9″ and receding hair is not “Danny Devito” either
What is De Vito then?
I watched a few videos of FaceandLMS and was kinda bored. It’s one thing to look good and still know that women sometimes give you a hard time, buts it’s another if your ugly, read about exxagerated claims of „chad and Tyrone“ and think they’re all true.
Thank you for putting this out. I will be honest, I have sometimes felt hopeless after reading your blog, thinking I’ll never be a 6’3 bodybuilding model and therefore never get a decently attractive girlfriend. this post is a good reminder for men to be realistic, not defeatist.
Great post. I plan to hire you for email consultation in the near future.
In that aspect, I think Sleazy did more to the black pill and defeatism than any other menosphare persona.
Until I saw this, i didn’t know how to describe what we got over here (in this mini community we’ve formed as readers of Aaron’s blogs).
We’re in neither of the two extremes… But I think that’s the simplest way to describe it: Realism.
– BlackPill is unrealistic pessimism.
– GameCrap is unrealistic optimism.
The objective truth is somewhere else. It’s about realistic and what you can do, without entering defeatism or bitterness.
It’s about being realistic about what’s possible, without going into defeatism or bitterness.
Today i was just thinking how i am lucky to have found aaron.
Everywhere (expecially here in italy) there is blue pill/PUA advices, a lot of people speculating on low LMS men selling them whatever to get laid brainwashing them.
The other day i was looking in one of my favorite gamer youtube channel and i seen that he made a collaboration with the famous PUA richard la ruina (he made a videogame on pick up). I know that the guy gotta eat but it so sad that a lot of young guys will fall for these tricks.
I still remember when i purchased minimal game, i was still in the PUA phase, luckly i never put in practice anything because i never felt that what i was being told was right and felt that there was something that didnt click. I randomly purchased aaron’s book because of amazon suggestions when i was looking in the mark manson page.
To the other side we have Redpill/black pill /whatever pill which are or lesser bulshits or extreme negativity that still dont bring you anywhere.
Here we have realism and practical advices to gain most based on your value.
Again, i think i am very lucky, i havent found an equivalent source like aaron and i mean, he isnt very famous. Its just a matter of luck that i found him and know i have a clear vision of things that very few people have in real life
Thanks for the comment. I’m glad you have found my material helpful.
I think that having bills to pay is not a good justification for unethical behavior, by the way. Bank robbers may have families to feed, scammers on eBay have to save up for their pension fund.
The problem with offering realistic advice is that it is not generally appealing as most people rather chase after a “quick fix”. Losing weight, i.e. excess fat, is not difficult, but books or video courses telling women to drop their “vegan” processed sweets are not nearly as appealing as marketing the latest fad diet or exercise routine. Most people are simply lazy and stupid.
Great piece!
I am and have been guilty of both overdosing on the black pill and dispensing it. Boy, sometimes I felt like I were to dissolute any moment; blackpilled into oblivion. I bet this community attracts introverted guys suffering from depression, anxiety, body dysmorphic disorder etc. like a pile of shit lures in legions of flies. Low frustration tolerance and being thin-skinned may also play a major part in this mess.
I assume you are familiar with the (beginning of the) serenity prayer:
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.”
The black piller is all too eager to always think that ALL things are out of his control and therefore considers himself woke and stoic and what have you whilst wallowing in his (at least somewhat) avoidable misery.
Being one myself (I’m trying to shake it off), I can’t judge him, though. Coz neurochemistry can be a nasty bitch and life does throw you many curveballs. I see even bright people acting dense as fuck on a daily basis. Nuances, the ease of being etc.; they form some of the stumbling blocks for these fellas. Some guys are just to locked up in their own head (which might again be stuck up their arses).
To give a little advice (the worst vice is advice) for black pill victims let me say: Meditation goes a long way…
And if you can only think along negative ways leading to your rot, while not (try to) let go of thinking for 10 to 60 min a day? I’ve heard there are some BS free meditation guides out there 😉
Maybe this video from Stardusk (Thinking Ape TV) might also offer a new perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-MiiE8qFxs
Pace yourselves, motherfuckers!
Yeah, it’s weird how society works, it seems to take many swings of a pendulum before people reach a balanced point.
Like the popular belief is a bunch of BS, and a reactionary movement forms that swings to the other extreme (and is almost as much BS). It disproves the BS of the previous one, but introduces it’s own BS.
How long do we have to wait before the big movement resembles something like this blog here. I think the issues is simple. Basic logical deduction and reasoning isn’t taught in schools.
I’ve noticed those of us who ended up on the Aaron Sleazy blog/forum/etc… we’re mostly people who have some background in logic (or can discern BS for whatever other reason).
It seems like the “mainstream” is slowly shifting, but who knows how long it will take before it reaches a balanced point (like what is presented here).
“mostly people who have some background in logic (or can discern BS for whatever other reason”
Do you know that feeling as a kid that “something’s not right” but you can’t put it in words even if you have anectodal experience to back it up?
I don’t have a logic background at all, but when I read “Debunking the Seduction community” I finally found the words for what I intuitively knew was always true.
I’d argue that there are the logic-background guys like you and Aaron and others and then there are the “gut feeling/natural guys” like me who just were so brainwashed by everything (society/parents) that they needed to find back to their intuition and Aaron, you and this blog did that with some basic logic. Sorta replaced the missing father figures with logic – however stupid that might sound.
When I first decided to get better with women, I literally went to google and soon landed on a PUA website and forum. Thankfully I have a good BS detector, although i did not know what was wrong at the time, i could smell rat right away. It just felt so convoluted and artificial.
I dont think it will ever reach a balance – social systems are constantly unbalanced in some way or another because growth (in every sense -economic, demographic, cultural trends) tends to be uneven. Thats what keeps them evolving. And most people will go with the flow of their socialm environment at large without much critical thinking.
I would bet that a lot of the people commenting around here are critical thinkers and not easily carrieed away by conventional thinking.
i suffer that defeatism through
5 9 minimal wage, skinny, ok face , 28, average dick.
would love to be 6 8 with 10 inch dick .
dont care about money and statues that much.
i just dont want to get “no” and waste efforts on nothing. i want to be a gigantic psychopath chad but i am not.
Leg lengthening operation?
i dont want to be disabled nor do i want to be disproportionate as fuck.
if you bring this you can also put silicon in dick, lots of black porn stars seems to be doing this. but as with the above it is not a good idea.
I actually saw someone doing pick up in a mall area yesterday – like “infield”style. I passed by and overheard the follow up to his “opener”. What struck me, was that he was tall and good looking and from the brief snapshot of what I saw, the girls were into it.
What was kind of weird though is his game was so polished and canned (what I heard him say was laughably generic ) and he seemed really relaxed, I wonder if he was a coach recording himself (which has occurred in this area before). In fact, I saw a guy a moment before I passed by , filming an “establishing” type shot so maybe he was the cameraman. When it’s busy there, you will actually see PUA style guys loitering, leaning around and lying in wait to jump out on an unsuspecting women.
Even though the PUA biz appears to be fading, I think there clones with their own Youtube channels a who do cold approach and film it for ego reasons and views but not necessarily as a business model. The quicker these guys va
I have a similar experience Pickernanny. 2 years ago I met this really intelligent Chinese girl on a premed track who had a boyfriend. He was taller than me, sharper jawline, better sense of fashion, pretty handsome guy all in all. So I decide at one point to invite her back to my room to “study.” I LITERALLY say “come to my room” and she still accepts immediately, so no pretense there. She comes over, and being the supportive guy I am, I try to help her plan her future. Within a short while I’m giving her an introductory course in gynecology along with filling in her cavities just in case she changes fields to dentistry later on.
She likes the lesson so much that she hints at wanting me to be her boyfriend. I pull the “let’s just be friends” card, and in a couple days find out that her boyfriend still loves her and that “[she has] enough love for a lifetime.” SMH
I think this is the worst article Aaron “Sleazy” Elias ever wrote.
The problem with guys in or not in the black pill community is not defeatism. It’s entitlement.
Even the most defeated black pill guy can get a whore or a ugg. But they think they are entitled to the best pussy and looks away from the Plain Jane. Even though they are plain themselves.
If you want marriage, you should look for a girl that you may have to justify her many millions of flaws to yourself. All of us having Doutzen Kroes for a wife is highly unlikely. That’s just how it all works. No amount of game is going to change that.
If you don’t want marriage, fuck any one and every one you find tolerable or better. Baring in mind that at any moment, you can marry a Plain Jane like you don’t want to.
Game proponents did fooled you into believing that you had a chance with models. Now look at how it worked out for you lot.
But even plain Janes want Alphas and top-tier guys.
It doesn’t matter what the Plain Jane thinks is attractive as she can only marry a plain Joe.
@Don
Yes, but will she marry that plain Joe because of attraction & affection, OR just because she needs a walking humanoid ATM… !?
I know some women who just married for having a provider, nurturer, bread-winner, without really loving him; they are disgusted of having sex with him… but they endure it once a month or so. It’s like legalized prostitution.
Don, you sound like a feminist lol. I’ve seen no evidence that blackpillers are shooting for models. It’s one of the most common mainstream tropes.
In fact, when you’re sexless and inexperiences, your definition/criteria is warped the other way. If you were to ask one of these blackpillers to show you a girl out of his league (an 8) that he knows in real life, he will probably show you a 6 at best.
Now, the other thing that’s happening, which you hinted at with the marriage comment is this:
– yes, they can EVENTUALLY get a slavemaster (a plain jane to use him as a walking ATM)
– what you don’t get is that most of those blackpillers are either:
a) Still young
Meaning that the plain janes at his age are STILL on the cock carousel and not looking to settle with an ATM (yet). This means they ARE proactively rejecting him… they don’t even accept him as a walking ATM… perhaps a friendzone ATM at best
b) Not capable of even being an ATM
Being a walking ATM (provider) is a full-time profession, and not everyone can do it. So even if they’re at the age where Plain Janes would use him as a walking ATM, he’s not capable of being one.
@AlekNovy
The conclusion being…?
The same as in the blog post to which you’re commenting. The barrier is defeatism.
What I explained isn’t to say “they can’t do anything”, it’s just responding to Don’s perception that they’re entitled pricks who could easily get a jane, they’re just pining for models.
There are things they can do, like build actual status, go to the gym, etc etc… And all of those things are hard work. They can become guys who can at least occasionally get laid despite not being chads.
It’s not realistic they can become pussy slayers and bang bitches left and right, but to say they can’t get laid at all until the jane is a 35 year old looking to settle is pure defeatism. In other words the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Don’s view that they could get a plain jane if they wanted to isn’t real.
But they can become the kind of guys who can get plain janes, that part is real.
If it seems like a contradiction, just conside that both of these statements are true:
– They can’t bang plain janes
– They can bang plain janes
How? One refers to their current self. The other refers to if they do certain things to improve their LMS.
– The blackpill is correct in the sense that they (as they are) can’t bang even plain janes (at their current LMS)
– The defeatist part is where they then resort to believing their LMS is fixed and can’t be increased to be sufficient, so why even bother…
Word black in black pill means defeatist. Some aim above their league but all of them are united by the belief that attractiveness is predetermined and cannot be improved.
I can relate to this experience a lot. When I was much younger I even had some opportunities to get laid, yet I didn’t have the experience to act upon them. So when I eventually actively started trying to get laid, I had an awful time actually getting to that point. It was all based off my LMS, so I did the things (mostly looks related) that increased my chances and I started scoring some plain janes.
Here’s the problem with all that. Plain Janes will have attitudes, demands, bad personalities, abusive tendencies, and warped expectations of you if you date them long term, or you’ll just get tired of banging 5’s and 6’s and maybe the occasional 7. That’s where MGTOW eventually comes in. You become at peace with being single and you focus on hobbies in addition to your work, for example. It’s really a liberating position to be in. A trip to Thailand would still be nice, however.
Exactly. It is a cost benefit calculation…
I concede that my experience is different as I never swallowed a black pill. Yet, I am sure that my problem before was entitlement. I fantasied about women in magazines without considering how fake they are.
By the way, I didn’t mean to sound like a feminist cuck.
@Don
Most plain Joes are happy with a 5/10 nerd-girl…
Continuing on from where Pickernanny went:
Yeah, and that’s the difference between blackpillers and non-chad MGTOWS.
– A blackpiller believes that he will never be able to lay/marry a 7*
– The MGTOW knows he can if he did xyz, he’s decided the juice isn’t worth the squeeze… he’s moved on
(*replace 7 with whatever)
Even though they’re both “seemingly” at the same place… I.e. “a single guy who’s not proactively dating…” the difference is in the frame of mind.
One is bitter and defeated, the other is coming from a sense of power.
Caveat: I’m using a specific definition of mgtow/blackpiller. Some blackpillers call themselves MGTOW… In fact before the blackpill term most blackpillers called themselves MGTOW.
To me MGTOW is = “I’ve decided abc isn’t worth the effort/risk”, and blackpill is “abc is impossible to get”.
Proofreader…
– The MGTOW knows that there are things he can do to date/lay/marry sevens… He has just concluded that these entitled sevens aren’t worth doing it.
Pickernanny above has a good overview of the process.
Yes, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. For any blackpiller or inexperienced guys in general, here’s a funny video to kind of let you know what you’re up against.
https://youtu.be/sTYQi4hnWDw
You see from the photograph that the woman being broken up with is attractive enough that plenty of men would happily date and marry her, at least if the picture is actually indicative of her current real life looks. That’s my opinion anyway.
While listening to the audio, I honestly got the impression that this chick was genuine and sweet. You have to wait until towards the end to find out that she is a cheating whore. Who would’ve known? She says things like, “I’ve known I wanted to spend the rest of my life with my boyfriend for some time.” (I’m paraphrasing, but pretty much). Meanwhile, she is fucking Eric on the side and she even has the balls to publicly makeout with the guy, which inevitably led to her downfall. She was probably so arrogant that she thought that even if she did get caught that it wouldn’t hurt her current relationship with her live in boyfriend. But again, she seems like such a sweetheart. Haha.
Last year I had an experience fucking around with a woman living with a guy who had fathered a child with her. Before I go on, I am 100% not proud of doing it, but at the time I felt compelled to. Without going on a moral rant or anything, let me just tell you how disgusting the situation was. This was my only time messing around with a “taken” woman.
Anyways, I’m also 99% sure this guy never found out about his sweet baby’s affair, nor would she ever want him to. I would get lots of dirty pictures and videos to fap to in between making this girl my whore. She would be down for anything, all the while wearing her fiance’s engagement ring. She would talk about how much bigger and satisfying my dick was, and even come over just to suck it off and then leave within 30 mins to an hour. Meanwhile, this guy who is busting his ass working overtime in a grizzly profession has to put up with her nagging and bitching non-stop.
It has been said on here to never put your dick in crazy. I’m just lucky to have never pissed her off and that she had a lot to hide. I made sure to get audio confirmation of consent just in case. You may never notice how crazy a bitch is when on the outside she is living the family life and working in a somewhat respectable industry.
I’m not saying all women are whores or anything, but I am saying that I’ve become jaded. And this is from someone who hasn’t even had a quarter of the experience as someone like Alek or Aaron.
Accidentally posted this under the wrong comment, sorry about that. Reposting it here since it’s more relevant
I have a similar experience Pickernanny. 2 years ago I met this really intelligent Chinese girl on a premed track who had a boyfriend. He was taller than me, sharper jawline, better sense of fashion, pretty handsome guy all in all. So I decide at one point to invite her back to my room to “study.” I LITERALLY say “come to my room” and she still accepts immediately, so no pretense there. She comes over, and being the supportive guy I am, I try to help her plan her future. Within a short while I’m giving her an introductory course in gynecology along with filling in her cavities just in case she changes fields to dentistry later on.
She likes the lesson so much that she hints at wanting me to be her boyfriend. I pull the “let’s just be friends” card, and in a couple days find out that her boyfriend still loves her and that “[she has] enough love for a lifetime.” SMH
Please don’t put me in the same category as Aaron lol. I’m nowhere near.
My impression is that me and you are probably at the same level of experiences (quantity/quality). Same with most of the regulars on here.
The difference with me is that I have an additional decade of keyboard jockeying and fruitless stuff from the early community days. A lot of years wasted on those early community iterations that went nowhere. Like spending 2 years on one fad, then 2 years on another fad… wasted a decade like that. But I have a database to pull references from in retrospect…
So I did a lot more shit that went nowhere, and a lot more analysis before I actually started doing anything that got any consistent results. This was only a short-while before discovered Aaron’s debunking stuff.
I was already somewhat on the path of waking up and starting to get results by doing more common sense stuff. Then reading Aaron’s stuff sped up the progress.
@AlekNovy
Haha, I seriously doubt that you and I are on similar grounds of experience with women. I was thinking about it more and I sort of realized that my threshold for stress is pretty low. Higher these days than back when I was younger, yet I find that I’m wound pretty tight. So juggling two different crazy bitches, working snd trying to focus on hobbies and self-improvment stuff maxes me out. I honestly can imagine just rotating a new chick in cycles, like having voluntary dry spells and then pouncing once in a while when the getting is good and probably being pretty content with that approach for a while.
I wonder if the futility and brutality of apps like Tinder and Bumble have fueled this defeatism as well.
Agree 100% when you see you get zero interest, but your tall friend is slaying left and right – you open your eyes to the cards you been dealt.
They are just amplifiers. Like UBER is an amplifier for the broken model of taxis standing around and the costs for a ride actually representing previous waiting time, not just the actual transportation costs. Same with hotels vs. AirBnB. The hotel room rate you pay reflects the price of the room plus that of the non-occupied ones.
So, Tinder just does that: amplifies the fact that women are very picky. The smart users like me (hahahahaa) took the free version and liked every profile they could within their limit each day. Them bitches be picky? Aight go ahead and see what matches I get. Selecting between a few matches per week is less work than selecting between 100 maybe-matches every day.
Min maxing at its best. Most bang for your buck.
Evolution, motherfucker – survival of those who can adapt.
“They think that because they aren’t 6’6″ with a 7-figure paycheck and an 8″ cock, they have no chance at all in the dating market. Of course, I am exaggerating here.”
You don’t exaggerate they really think like that. The problem is that those “chads” are like unicorns – they only exist in fantasy. They average millionaire is over 55 years old, has 2 kids and is married. Same goes for most 6 figure earners. it’s very rare to find somebody younger than 40 to match the criteria.
If you add everything in (height, looks, muscles, penis …) you may find like 1 “chad” in 30.000 – 50.000 to match everything. And even if you find one of them they will be busy making money (and not chasing hoes at a club at 2 a.m)
Red and Blackpillers confuse the top 10% with the top 0.000001%. They are envious and obsessed about a phantom that doesn’t exist…