The Open Thread: June 2017

The monthly Open Thread is a place for open discussion among my readers. Post anything you feel like sharing! If this thread gets very busy, there may be another one on the 15th of this month.

The stage is yours. Go ahead!

64 thoughts on “The Open Thread: June 2017

  1. Hey Aaron,
    I’m curious,but when the time comes that you reach your old age(I’m talking past 60,which is past “the wall” for most non-rich/non-celebrity men),would you be open to soliciting the services of escorts/high class call girls? Unlike “PUA/gamers”,you and your readers/other anti-gamers don’t seem to have an issue with the activity whatsoever. (and I agree,there’s no shame in it.)

    1. It’s absolutely a viable alternative. However, keep in mind that your T-levels drop as you age, so by the time you hit 60, you may no longer desire to put your dick in every young tight pussy you come across.

  2. Hi Aaron,

    Now that you’ve gone a little more politically incorrect and “dark” in your anti-feminism writings, I want to revisit one of the most “ancient” topics you’ve covered, “alpha male game” (or to be more technically accurate, “psychosocial dominance”).

    I think in some limited circumstances, it really exists. People like Dennis Rader (the notorious BTK serial killer) get a lot of female attention in prison from women wanting to be penpals (or more) and not all of it is from frumpy, bored housewives and female guards. Some of the gals sending in letters and pics to guys like these are respectable young eights or so.

    BTK is old, fat, short, bald, poor, and had no social status other than being a deacon at his church. So, clearly, something is attractive about monsters like him besides just the fundamentals (looks, money, power).

    I don’t agree with the PUA hucksters that anyone can get tons of poon from the hottest babes just by learning to be a cool, cocky jerk. However–I think it’s pretty undeniable that a select few guys “have it” and that an even select fewer guys can successfully learn it. It doesn’t mean that a 400-pound loser will start banging supermodels, but maybe with some diligent study he’ll be banging 200-pound chicks in a couple years.

    Note that I said “select few” and “even select fewer”. I’m not a PUA shill, and certainly I think that 90% of guys should work on the fundamentals and ignore “game”, or at least not work on “game” until their fundamentals are in much better shape. But if you’re 98% there, or are severely limited by poor circumstances or genes, would possibly putting yourself in a position to improve your odds 2 to 10% be that bad an idea?

    I’m sincerely curious for your thoughts on this topic today. Thanks.

    1. get a lot of female attention

      Celebrities get a lot of attention. He’s a celebrity serial killer, meaning (because he’s known nationwide) he gets attention from the 0.0001% who are into that stuff. You fail at math.

    2. You fail at math.

      Basically you have to dive the number of women who’ve been exposed to him through the media and divide that by the number of letter-writing fans.

      Than compare that to another (non killer) man with an equivalent amount of media coverage and how much attention he gets from women.

      It’s called the scientific method (reason, logic etc) try it some time…

    3. Now, to put the final nail in the coffin: have you ever heard the name “Jeremy Meeks”?
      He was some felon whose mugshot became viral because he was, well, a very attractive male. He was so attractive that many women offered to pay his bail. I guess gangstas aren’t as scary if they’re hot enough.
      He became famous because he is hot. And I can bet my ass he didn’t got any lame letters, nah, his fucking smartphone surely got filled by dozens of nudes sent by hundreds of horny women.

  3. I kind of wonder if we will see some PUA advocating “Serial Killer Game”.

    It is an article of faith among “Game” adherents that looks do not matter and anyone with the right skills can land lingerie models. People really want to believe this crap and don’t react well if you doubt this.
    I bump into this on the Red Pill sub on Reddit all the time. Most recently one guy did argue with me that a short, fat, ugly, and poor guy with game could land lingerie models, and used some footage on youtube of some fellow called RSD Luke as his proof.

    1. Ironically RSD luke himself doesn’t credit “game” for getting girls he does. He credits high-status, i.e. “club promoter game”.

  4. To quote someone much wiser than me on this:
    “Don’t believe everything you see or read on the internet” (Mahatma Gandhi)

    🙂

    1. Ernesto Guevara once said “If I wasn’t dead I would be filthy rich thanks to all those liberals who buy my t-shirts”.

  5. Do you think there is any connection between political afffiliation and IQ? There are certainly intelligent politicians on both sides (Merkel with a PhD in quantum chemistry on the one hand and a guy like Ted Cruz on the other hand, for example).

    And another question: do you think its possible to be left-wing on some issues and right-wing on some other issues? I think Sam Harris (my favourite intellectual) coined the term “Identity politics” which means that most people aren’t objective but rather like to “play for teams” (why should your position on gun control have anything to do with your position on climate change? But usually you can predict one if you know the other).

    1. Merkel’s PhD was bullshit. Do some research online.

      Left/right are simply labels. A common way of arguing is that your opponent puts a certain label on you and attacks a position people of that political persuasion are believed to hold, regardless of whether it applies to you or not.

    2. There have been studies in the US suggesting that higher IQ correlates with “independent” or “no party affiliation”, meaning voters who are willing to swingtheir vote on issues rather that toe a party line. Looks plausible on its face, but there are an endless number of caveats.
      Left and right are too broad labels, it is certainly possible to lean differently. Libertarians such as myself tend to lean left on social issues (pro gay marriage, drug and prostitution legalization, separation of religion and state) and right on economic ones (fiscal conservatism, balanced budgets, free trade).

  6. Mr. Sleazy I have 2 questions, first just out of curiosity, what the hell do you talk about on a date? I meet hot chicks occasionally through my daily travels. Get a number, call them then we meetup for dinner or something and generally the conversation dies because I get mired in stupid interview talk. Second, would you recommend bars or nightclubs to meet more ladies inclined to hookup? Rather than the spam approache advocacy from the RSD cult. You’re advice would be greatly appreciated.

  7. I’d like to make a few points based on my experiences. Along with that, I will ask some questions.

    I believe that these things are true. However, some might be false dichotomies.

    1. Women have more social support than men do. So basically, men are more likely to be lonely/loners.

    Not all men of course, but just statistically speaking that is.

    2. Women be submissive socially, so it is easier for them to make friends perhaps? Either that, or I suck at making friends. A guy who is shy might be seen as a chump, compared to a girl who is shy.

    I mean, women know that there is power in numbers and imo, women would rather hang out with girls they aren’t the close with rather than no one partly because the above reason, i.e. they know there is power in numbers. As a guy, I feel like if people don’t like you, they just won’t talk to you.

    3. Girls get judged less for their success. To get married as a girl, you just need to be hot. As a guy, you need something going for you. Granted, if you as a girl are a total piece of crap, you would have trouble finding someone. Regardless, the bar is higher for men to reach (success-wise, that is).

    Girls struggle with other things that men-don’t, but I wasn’t talking about those things. Also, I feel like men tend to get judged more value-judgment wise. While with women, people are more likely to show support or sympathy, even if she has nothing going for her in life. Guys just get told to stop complaining like a loser.

    Also, one question:

    A. Do girls even want to be friends with or respect guys who have nothing going for them?

  8. 2. Women are more agreeable than men as a whole, and thus it is plausible that they, as a result, have more friends too.

    3. I think women are visciously criticized by their competition. Usually other guys respect the fuck out of those who have “made it” (more so than girls at least).

    A. No, unless they need an emotional tampon, attention, or someone to run errands for them.

    1. “A. No, unless they need an emotional tampon, attention, or someone to run errands for them.”

      Hi, Shawn.

      Could you elaborate a bit? Like with an example or 2?

    2. What reason would any girl have to keep a guy around unless she was using him in some way or another?

    3. A. I mean, perhaps certain girls really do want to be friends with a dude. Granted, if a girl has enough emotional intimacy through her female friends, what would she need a male friend for?

      Honestly, girls don’t know how hard it is, being a guy who isn’t alpha. In general, guys who have nothing going for them probably have few friends, a greater chance of being lonely, and no respect from men OR women. This decreases if a guy has decent social status/confidence and social skills. Although, I guess on the flip side, guys don’t have to deal with sexual harassment or being afraid of stalkers.

      There was an interesting thread on Reddit that talked about a person who had somewhat lived as a guy and a women, because that person had been/ is Transexual. They dressed as the other sex and took hormone supplements and stuff. They said girls get less respect but on the flip side, being a guy can be awfully lonely.

    4. In my experience, the truest female “friends” I’ve had were exorbitantly older than me. It was based on a silent agreement and acknowledgement of the fact that we were mutually uninsterested in each other (for obvious reasons). I think two similarly aged individuals of opposite genders, unless they are turned off from one another due to some predetermined factor, cannot be just friends.

      Could you go on a little about “girls get less respect”?

    5. @Shawn

      Tons of ppl don’t believe the Bill Cosby accusers, even tho their accusations are obviously correct. In certain fields, women get treated like they are inferior as well. Guys talking down to them, etc. Acting like men are better.

    6. Bob:
      It’s pretty rare for women to be friends with guys just for the sake of being friends. More often than not you find out that the men are useful idiots – like an emotional tampon – or she secretly has the hots for him.

      For your loneliness chip: find a social hobby and become a regular. That should fix it.

      There is more to life than Alpha/non-Alpha.

      The surest way of curing “stalking” is to make fun of the “stalked” girl. So the next time a girl tells you she “just can’t lose this guy” confront her with her highly ambivalent behavior, point out the obvious reinforcing she does and have a nice chuckle.

  9. Why do you think so many manosphere guys hate skinny jeans so much? I wear them and girls seem to like them, lots of cool guys wear them, but manosphere dudes seem to think that wearing skinny jeans will make all women see you as a wuss.

    1. That’s news to me. Skinny jeans don’t turn you into a pussy, just like a pair of rugged jeans don’t turn you into an alpha.

    2. Remember that the Manosphere is more about chest pounding and posturing than actually being a masculine dude.

  10. I’ve noticed that ever since I’ve started mongering, I don’t feel the need to pander to my female colleagues in school unlike my other male classmates who are like dancing monkeys trying to win someone over. Because of my withdrawn attitude, the girls have called me a snob and it seems like they are trying to coerce me to play this power game. Even the guys are trying to put me in my place.

    1. How do you deal with the fact that the girls you are fucking doesn’t like you? Which to me is the biggest problem with mongering.

    2. I really don’t care. Mainly for sex with a variety beautiful girls and convenience. Some are pretty convincing

    3. Do you personally know a website where someone can get initiated into mongering and doing it safely? Preferably about mongering abroad.

  11. @Don
    “How do you deal with the fact that the girls you are fucking doesn’t like you? ”

    You are talking about prostitutes not liking you, right?
    If that’s your question, then I’d say get her to like you. Took me less then 5 minutes the last few times. The bar is set so incredibly low by former “customers”, that just talking normally to her and asking her about her day (when I ask, I truly care btw) will be enough to set a friendly environment.
    If that doesn’t help, drink some more.

  12. Cautionary tale about NAWALT here

    I buddy of mine, he is a few years older than me, has been for the past decade raising two kids he had with his former girlfriend. Bitch conveniently got pregnant when they were breaking up. Dont ask me how he fell for it a second time right after the first one was born, it stretches my credulity. The guy is a STEM, relatively succesful as a provider, but the shitty exGF is living rent free in his apartment, so he lives with his parents. Last year I asked him, over a few beers, how much of his income he is spending on his kids, and it was something like 70%.

    As far as I am concerned, he is an excellent father, and a very good guy generally. Very entrepreneurial, he is always talking about bussinesses he would like to develop and, unlike most guys, he actually puts in the work. He has succeeded on some investments, failed on others, but makes very decent money. And he has a long time GF, his age (he is mid thirties), for several years now, but they never had any kids. Very nice girl, I have met her a few times. I could not spot any obvious red flags with her.

    Recently, his new bussiness started taking off really well, doing some very good money. So much he started talking about opening a franchise. At the exact same time, after many years without contraception mishaps, his long time GF accidentally gets pregnant….

    Do you see a pattern by now?
    Aaron has said it here before, but it bears repeating: if you type the words “trick him” into a google search bar, the most searched phrases google will suggest to you are “trick him to get me pregnant”, “trick him into getting me pregnant”, “trick him to get pregnant” or some variation of those!!

    MEN: YOUR BEST FRIEND IS NOT A DOG, ITS A CONDOM.

    Dogs come in close second place.

    1. Well, if you are going to fuck around a lot, you will sooner or later run into some STDs, the only foolproof way to avoid STds is avoiding women altogether and sticking to porn. But assuming you prefer real women, some preventive measures go a long way. Here are some pointers:

      1 – be choosy about who you sleep with: I know, this may sound hypocritical coming from someone who has been in the swinger scene, but your best protection is knowing your partners history to the extent this is possible. If you are sleeping with girls from your extended social circle, you will probably know their reputation. There is no need to go after the crazy sluts who bang a new guy every week, “good” girls like sex too and put out as well, they just do it at a lower rate.

      2 – get you own harem: you can keep variety while reducing the turnover rate, a closer circle of more or less trusted girls reduces your chances of STDs. I tend to form fuckbuddy relationships with a number of girls, usually have 3 or 4 in rotation, so while I am not meeting new girls as often, I very rarely go a week without sex. And it drives down the cost of money and effort spent on getting laid greatly. Girls are surprisingly open to sharing a guy they like with other girls if they don’t see you as provider material. Some might even tell you to fuck whoever you like, as long as you promise to wear a condom and not expose them to stds. Even while being openly non-exclusive, some girls will stick just to you for sex and not fuck around with other guys. One of my best regular lovers for the past 2 years has had sex with only 3 other guys (one time each) during the same time period (and even then they were not hookups, she was trying to date them).

      3) if you are going for strangers, look out for red flags indicating poor sexual health practices. Girls can be promiscuous but responsible about it at the same time, either insisting you wear an condom or even carrying their own. A girl who offers you to bang her raw (no condom) on a first date is clearly a health hazard and should be avoided altogether. Unprotected oral sex is less risky, but there is some risk nonetheless. Avoid going down on girls you dont know well yet. Even swingers tend to use condoms a lot.

      4) Look out for symptoms of disease, especially after her clothes are off. Any spots or warts around the mouth, the genita or anal areas should be treated with suspicion, condoms will not protect you against HPV nor herpes, which are widespread. HPV is generally harmless, and even asymptomatic (most people dont even know they have or had it) and your immune system generally clears it out by itself. Herpes is not thaaat much of a big deal but it is not curable. So far I only got STDs twice in the last 5 years, once it was HPV, the other it was a rather harmless skin infection, but in either case condom made no difference. And no, I did not spot any symptoms on any of the girls I slept with back then (not even sure who passed me either infection), so its not foolproof either. As I said, some infections are asymptomatic for some people, but they can still pass it on. Moreover, symptoms of bacterial infection, chlamydia or ghonorrea (or hpv warts, for that matter) might not be visible at all in women if they appear inside the vagina.

      5) NEVER EVER go out without a couple condoms on you. Dont trust other peoples condoms, always carry your own. So you will know that they are not bad quality, expired, punctured, or otherwise tainted, and that they are the proper size for your dick. If a condom is too small or too thin you risk breaking it, if it is too large you risk the condom sliding off during intercourse, most critically during the moments after you come, when your penis begins to soften.

      STDs can be a bitch, but you can generally deal with them. Unwanted pregnancy can ruin your life.

  13. Cute chick marrying a Mr Six Figures is a common trope here but I’m confused because I don’t see many instances of this around me. What are your experiences with this?

    Almost all of the educated high earning people I know personally are usually married to a doctor or a lawyer. I really don’t see many instances of smart men with good careers right out of college marrying a chick who is “only doing a bit of cardio to stay in shape and riding dicks until she meets Mr Six Figures”, probably because they are… well… smart.

    From what I can see in the news such women are usually paired up with uneducated rich men like athletes, entertainers and certain type of businessmen but never with someone making six figures right out of college.

  14. I fucked up and stuck my dick in crazy with a girl I go to class with. She’s catching feelings pretty hard but I really have no plans of having a relationship with her. Am I royally fucked or is there a way I can let her down easy without any drama?

  15. My female friends in particular are pestering me to introduce my girlfriend to them. I have two fuck buddies at the moment. One main and other secondary. They don’t want to meet my friends as they have other arrangements. (for one, the secondary has a husband) I am curious as to what would you all do if you had a similar problem?

    1. As awkward it is going to feel, I too think ignoring their requests is a good alternative. I think it would’ve been better if I said I am not dating anyone at the moment in the first place.

  16. I don’t know of you guys ever heard of this guy:
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/the-looking-for-a-girlfriend-flyer-guy-in-new-york-is-getting-laid-way-more-than-you-311
    The interview has some interesting points:
    -Many of the phone calls are just prank calls. But the few women that did call were meaning business, no bullshit.
    -If the “rich girl” story is real, then it also adds points to the notion that both women and men WILL resort to the low-hanging apple when it’s needed. The girl was horny, she had no guy available to fuck= she calls the flyer guy. Those “girl fucking the plumber” are not just porn fantasies, they do sometimes happen (one girl I met confessed me she once fucked a cable guy because she was horny and she found him hot enough)
    -Other guys had made half-assed attempts to replicate this phenomenon, and they failed since they didn’t include their phone numbers or they didn’t even show their faces.
    -Flyer Guy became jaded. He almost doesn’t give a fuck about relationships. He even considered changing the “Looking for a girlfriend” flyer for “Looking to get laid”. Also, he does NOT want a women beyond her thirties. And he wants models. Any angry fugly feminist would call him “a delusional loser that can’t get laid”, yet he claims that he fucked a lot of her dates.
    -Since he has met tons and tons of women, all notions he had about feminity and romance have eroded. He mocks some candyass that has a TV show that tried to interview him, probably to keep feeding the masses with all this romantic “just be yourself and wait for the one” bullshit or whatever hidden agenda that guy had.

    Of course, there’s also the chance the whole story is a well crafted fabrication.

  17. I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, but what is the “proper” procedure when dealing with individuals who are not comfortable with their sexuality, let alone talk about it? I have met a few girls that would chastise me for speaking openly about sex and admonish and sort of escalation, be it online or off-line.

    A recent example would be my lewd nude where I snapped a photo of a banana sticking out of my fly. A few girls ignored the picture, some laughed and continued the conversation, but one acted as though I blasphemed. I realize my idea was stupid, but sometimes a chuckle or two is worth the risk. I think those that found me attractive did not mind, but the offended girl (a virgin) must view me as Quasimodo’s twin. What irks me the most is that she sent a third-party to tell me she was upset. Mind you, all these interactions took place online. Did I overstep my bounds?

  18. I don’t know if this has been discussed/blogged about so please excuse me if it has..
    That posted;

    Has anyone heard of R.I.S.U.G ? It is a 10 year, reversible birth control for men. It has been used successfully in India since 1990. It is a gel that is injected into the vas deferens, it kills the immature sperm as they travel up the vas deferens to the prostate. It does require a 30 min visit to the doctor. Granted, it’s not a “pill” but, it is away for men to seize some control back for reproductive Rights.
    R.I.S.U.G and VASAGEL were supposed to be approved by the F.D.A. and then become available in the U.S. in 2015.
    It hasn’t been yet, mostly due to the political pressure brought to bear by feminist organizations.
    These organizations are scared because of the implications for women if men get a reversable birth control. After all, other than vasctomies, condom, or abstinence which are the only birth control currently available to men. And thanks to the ground work feminist organizations have made towards free birth control for women, R.I.S.U.G & VASAGEL would be free for men.
    As a man I can only see good when R.I.S.U.G. & VASAGEL become available here in the U.S. It’s a boost for men to seize their Reproductive Rights, while forcing big pharma to start exploring men’s reproductive health.
    Using Oregon as an example; in 2005 the state of Oregon over the objections of feminist’s organizations​, legalized men’s right to a vastomy. The state gave the Dept of Health the ability to give free vasctomies to any male over the age of 15. As most males know there are risks with a vasctomy. And reversing one is very expensive, and not 100% effective(75% when I last looked) BUT, when R.I.S.U.G. & VASAGEL become available, that same 15 y/o can go get the procedure. Then if he at say 23 decides to have a child with his girlfriend he can go back to the Dept of Health get 2 more injections that will dissolve the gel within the vas deferens.
    His fertility will come back within 6 weeks. Then he can have all the kids he wants.
    Once he decides that he has enough kids, all he has to do is, visit the doctor and get R.I.S.U.G or VASAGEL re-injected.
    Feminist organizations are really worried about men being able to have any type of reproductive Right, mostly because it will lessen the woman’s ability to “decide” when or if they (women) want a child. Plus it gives a man the ability to dispute her if she says a child is his. As long as he hasn’t dissolved the R.I.S.U.G/VASAGEL. It would definitely change some of the family laws.
    Women in relationships would have to convince the man that they as a couple were finicially, emotionally, and stable enough to have children.

  19. Yes, Ive heard about it before.

    Regarding its current unavailability, I dont find the “feminist conspiracy” explanation all that convincing, that might apply in more gyno-centric western societies, but doesnt explain why other countries where faminists hold no such power have not seen it either.

    I’m more inclined to believe (like the people of Vasalgel have said repeatedly in interviews) that big pharma has a vested interest in keeping the current female hormonal birth control/ disposable condom models going for business reasons, since they make so much more profit from ongoing chronic treatments that a one-time-a-decade intervention.

  20. Turns I came across this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5qPiDvTF4

    Although i agree that this guy is quite a douche, some shill comments the following:
    ”only reason he gets girls is cuz he’s confident. Not cuz of his looks, been to many parties like these and every hot girls grinds on skinny,fat , average and muscular guys. If he was shy no girl would be around him. Grow some balls guys”

    Are we dealing with a PUA-retard here? I certainly never see hotties grinding up every skinny twig or fatass that says hi to them. In their world everyone must surely get laid like crazy all the time, all it takes is ‘game.’ I agree that shyness is generally a bad trait, but man, isn’t that obvious to everyone? I would hardly call that a part of ‘having game’.

    What stood out to me in particular though and the reason i wanted to share this wit hyou, was the type or argument that he uses. I encounter it a lot, and when i see it, it now automaticall raises suspicion for me. It’s the good ‘ol ”I have tons of friends that X and they get girls too!”. Why is it always about a friend, and not about the person in question? I suppose this kid is tying to deny reality or attempting to make himself feel better. Any thoughts on this? Who else sees this reasoning a lot?

    1. It’s the same reason that there is always “that one guy” who is fat, short, and ugly, yet still bangs one supermodel after another, according to PUA shills. It’s obviously not a real person, so it can’t be the speaker. To me, it seems it’s not only an attempt at shill marketing, but also an attempt at maintaining a modicum of dignity (an infinitesimally small one) because it’s a lie about someone else who does not exist instead of a lie relating to the person making the claim.

    2. I’d say rather than dignity, it’s more about clinging on to a morsel of hope to delude oneself from the truth. I don’t think anyone who’s bought into PUA ideology could have a substantial degree of self-respect.

    3. I agree that shyness is generally a bad trait, but man, isn’t that obvious to everyone? I would hardly call that a part of ‘having game’.

      That’s the way bullshit cults work. They package in common-sense nuggets together with 99% bullshit, while claiming ownership of the common-sense shit.

      We used to have a running joke in those big “anti-game” debate days. It went like “Take a shower game”, “leave the house game”. It referred to the fact that gamed peddlers wanted to take ownership of everything as being “game”.

      https://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/the-paleo-game-cult/#comment-5834
      http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2012/12/guest-post-what-game-is-and-isnt-by.html

      It’s a trick used by other cults too. Like scientology or feminism.

      – If you see someone by the road in a car accident, you walk out and help them, that’s what scientology is
      – If you believe that women are human beings, well you’re a feminist

      It’s an old cult trick. By definition the word “definition” means that something is defined what it DOESNT share with other phenomena. A thing isn’t defined by what it has in common with other things, but by the things that make it different.

      Game is then defined by all the bullshit beliefs specifically invented by and only believed by game/pua followers. It can’t be defined by what normal common-sense grandmas also believe in. (being shy and awkward repels even interested girls/being assertive makes it easier for them to show interest etc etc).

  21. Haha, yes that’s what i thought too! You provided a very clear explanation aaron, thanks, i never looked at it that way. I suspect this argument is more often used as a cheap ego-protection tool rather than an actual reference to a real person. Well, i don’t know such a person, to be honest. I certainly don’t want to sound like i believe in looks only, and i agree that confidence, relaxation and a spine are crucial. But if you’re some underachieving loser who can’t stand hot girls getting chicks easily, then believing that looks play no role seems rather comforting. I was surprised by how many thumbs up that particular comment got. Turns out that people in the same boat tend to feed each other’s bullshit.

  22. Aaron, you’ll probably find the book below very interesting if you haven’t seen it before, in particular with regard to the various topics on which you’ve been posting lately. Note the publication date.

    The Future Of Marriage In Western Civilisation
    by Westermarck, Edward
    Published 1936
    https://archive.org/details/futureofmarriage032513mbp

    Besides putting trends that were already visible at that time into long-term historical contexts (he was an expert on the history of marriage), he makes various observations and predictions that obviously line up very nearly with the current environment.

    But even if public opinion would, in the future, grant complete sexual freedom to the unmarried of either sex, the indulgence in it by girls would still be attendant with serious disadvantages, already pointed out. There would undoubtedly be exploitation of women by men: girls who remained virgins would still be preferred as wives, and the others would run the risk of being used only for temporary purposes. Feminists advocating equal freedom for men and women seem to overlook the benefits that the men would derive from it: they would find it far easier to gratify their desires in a more agreeable manner than through intercourse with prostitutes, and at the same time to acquire sexual experience considered useful for their future marriage. When speaking of “the injustice” of different moral demands on man and woman, those advocates also fail to notice that this difference is ultimately due to a difference in the sexual instincts of the two sexes.

    Especially interesting is the closing line from his conclusion:

    …if there will be a time when conjugal and parental sentiments have vanished, I think that nothing in the world can save marriage and the family from destruction.

    On this latter point, I suggest looking into the research on artificial uterii, a technology that in my opinion takes the cake of everything out there that can really be described as “radically disruptive”. (Perhaps Aldous Huxley was a time traveler?)

    1. I can’t recall at this point. Might have been while reading up on the Westermarck effect (babies raised together will not feel sexual attraction for one another).

      For similar commentary by a more famous contemporary of his, see Getting Married, by George Bernard Shaw:

      http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5604

      What’s sure is that many of the issues around dating and relationships were figured out long ago by honest observers. Which is more likely to be psychologically and socially sound: the modern feminist experiment of the past half century, or the customs and traditions of old that have survived the trials of thousands of years of civilization (plague, famine, war, economic and social social strife, etc)? Much of what we see today was probably anticipated, if not altogether experienced, at various times in the past.

  23. it doesn’t seem to me the modern feminist experiment was a experiment at all. most likely it’s effects were known by the people pushing for it from the start. the destruction off society seems to be the only logical outcome. in order to create something new you first have to destroy the old. it seems to me the destruction was part off a larger agenda to create a new society. it’s to much off a perfect storm to be just a accidental by-product off a experiment. specially if you look at the forced immigration in combination with the effects off feminism. it seems the destruction off western society is done in a carefully planed and organised way. it’s multi generational genocide. like the boiling frog effect. if you raise the temperature slowly the frog will not jump out but instead will stay in the water till he’s cooked. the same seems to be happening with western society. we are being cooked slowly but surely. this destruction is by design.

  24. Corrected version. Please don’t post previous comment 🙂
    I want to write about the topic that I almost never (in fact – never) see in any MGTOW or redpill or even PUA blogs. It’s just a stub, so everyone can feel free to expand on it or make it into some blog post. Namely – learning to live without women.
    Here are some things I noticed
    1. Guys who never had agirlfriend cope relatively well with being alone
    2. Guys who never had sex but had some girlfriends fare worse imho
    3. If you had active sex life and relationship that ended abruptly combined with dry spell after that, sometimes it can take you at least 2 years to forget about your relationship, then another year to forget about all women altogether
    4. Women you dated, but didn’t fuck are stain on your soul for quite some time
    5. Women who wanted sex, but you didn’t go for it will haunt you even worse

    All that aside, in the hindsight – if I could choose between having sex several times in my life or having none, ever, I’d take the former. Guys, just like women, are not so sex crazy until they tried it. Same goes with relationship. Benefits of sex (and in some part of relationships) seem to me like taking illegal drugs – at first it enhances your life, then you need much more to feel the same baseline as when you were clean (it’s innacurate, but it’s just comparison).
    On personal note, I had unfair share of women in my life, just need to somehow remove ones that begged for sex and I was clueless and life will be sweet 🙂

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