In our ongoing debate with the only female reader of my blog who is willing to out herself, she recently dropped the following remarkable statement (source):
I have a large friend who found her fiance from that site, and I remember her being bombarded with messages from guys when she first signed on. I’d say about 50 in a two day period. Not sure if that’s the male experience or not.
The context is that we’re, obviously, claiming that you should much rather want to be a fat man than a fat woman because as a fat man you can at least make money and tip the scales, while a fat woman is just generally unattractive, disregarding the minuscule number of sickos who find morbidly obese women attractive.
There is a lot to get out of Ash’s comment. The first observation is her passive-aggressive conclusion. In her comments, she loves presenting herself as level-headed, but now female nature breaks through! For women, that kind of emotional arguing is very typical. Of course men don’t get as many messages as women. This leads to the second issue.
The second issue is that, when it comes to dating, the guy just has to do all the work. The girl only has to stand there, waiting for guys to come on to them. Girls even think that hovering around a guy means they’re throwing themselves at him. They also tend to get pretty frustrated whenever their awkward signaling of sexual availability doesn’t get interpreted correctly, or just by the wrong guy. In that case, it’s of course sexual harassment. In the context of online dating, a woman normally only has to put up a profile and wait for the messages to pour in. Men focus on younger and more attractive women, but online dating is the pits anyway, so you can expect the kind of man who’s going online to meet women to even go after the kind of woman who has to go online to find a man.
There are indeed guys who are, at least for some period in their life, willing to bang more or less anything. I observed this a few times among people in STEM fields who got no female attention for two to three decades. Suddenly, they can afford an apartment in a popular part of town and a nice car, and all the women Chad and Tyrone no longer want to fuck because have gotten too old for them line up. When Tinder came out, a friend of mine, a programmer, told me about a piece of code he wrote that allowed him to “swipe right” on any woman in their database. He found a way to talk to their server directly, without having to physically swipe. (Tinder eventually closed this loophole.) In the end, he got quite a few dates, mostly with women in their late 30s to mid-40s who just had dropped off the radar of younger guys, and who basically did all the work, such as trying to get him drunk and almost dragging him home. After the novelty had worn off, he got grossed out by it, though, and the last thing I know of him is that he’s, without being aware of the MGTOW movement, going his own way because he, “can’t get women when they are young and attractive and those old hags aren’t worth it.” I suggested to him to bang a bunch of young and attractive whores in Eastern Europe, which probably helped him come to this conclusion.
While women get spared the negative emotion of rejection, they also have the problem that they can only select from those men who chose to approach them. This leads to the third problem with Ash’s statement. Now, let’s be real for a second: what kind of guy goes after “large” women? You know this as well as I: guys who can’t get healthy women. Preferring fat women for a long-term relationship makes absolutely no sense. Obesity carries huge health implications, so why would you want to burden yourself with that? Then there is the issue that kids model their behavior after their parents. Fat mothers will have fat children. Thus, they will have a pretty shitty life. Let’s just hope, for the sake of the health of the species, that they don’t manage to procreate. Then again, maybe there will always be some fattie left who will just fuck anybody, and some simp of a guy who is happy about female attention no matter what. The underclass is happily procreating, after all. (Then again, they may view sex as a job as it leads to government money in the form of child benefits.)
For shorter hookups, fatties may have their reputation going for them. According to popular mythology, they are good at giving head. I’m not quite sure if this doesn’t just come from a misunderstood joke along whose lines fat girls just like putting things into their mouth. There may be some novelty in getting blown by a fattie, but if you’re a healthy male, you will feel more attracted to slim women, and you’ll certainly feel more aroused putting your cock in their mouth. I think it’s safe to say that men are only interested in brief encounter with fat women, if at all. Thus, a fat woman on a dating site may drown in messages from men. I don’t even want to dispute that. But those messages will be from broke losers, chubby chasers, Jose who used to bang tight pussy back home but now needs a visa to be able to stay in the country, and Tyrone who is not really into fat white chicks but knows that he can do absolutely anything with them because they have no self-esteem.
On the other hand, if you take a fat man, put him in a nice suit and upload pictures in front of his new Porsche, he’ll get enough money-hungry sluts willing to fuck him. Of course, those whores would rather fuck a buff billionaire, but as long as he’s not showing up, a fat millionaire will certainly do. For a rich guy, looks don’t really matter. This reminds me of a former client of mine, a very well-off guy who could have afforded to lose a few pounds. He wasn’t morbidly obese by a long shot, but he carried quite some extra weight around due to his predilection for great food and high-end liquors. He basically paid me to hang out with him and to pick my brain. We began the evening with a nice meal at a good restaurant. After he was done with the main course, he said to me, “You’re probably waiting for a good opportunity to tell me that I should work out. I actually work out. I’m fat because I love food!” While I laughed, he added, “…and to be honest, getting women is already not a problem for me.”
That guy banged some spectacularly good-looking women, and he had no delusions about what they saw in him. I don’t want to encourage you to pack on the pounds. However, for guys weight is just one of many factors a woman will consider. For men, though, the weight of a woman is a major factor, and arguably one she will find impossible to compensate for.
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34 thoughts on “Attention from males isn’t always due to attraction”
I get what you’re saying, but many guys misunderstand these kinds of points as an excuse to get lazy and or fat and or procrastinate.
Like back in the pickup days where guys were running around not showering, not grooming, etc… because they heard of a guy who didn’t shower and banged 10 chicks in 10 days.
The key here is *if* you’re rich. This trick doesn’t work if you’re merely well-off. Like if you make 50% more than the average and the other stuff is off… you ain’t getting an advantage.
Guys often either underestimate or overestimate certain factors. Like for example “status gets you laid”… But then they distort the extreme for the 80-20.
If you have super-high status (think global celebrity in a given niche) every other one of your factors can be off, but girls in that niche will bang you in the bootloads. But that’s you being in the top 0.01% for example. Let’s say the number 1 DJ for some kind of niche music. Being merely in the top 20% doesn’t cut it.
Now, if you’re in the top 20% of this niche (status) AND you have top 20% of all the other factors… then you can get laid like a rockstar… or if you combine the factors differently… maybe one of them can be off…. like being fat. But the other stuff has to be all top 20%.
But guys often distort to mean “oh it’s enough to be in the top 20% of status and not shower and not workout and I’ll have orgies everyday”.
I feel like I’m being annoying sometimes with giving these disclaimers and clarifications. But you’d surprised how many guys need them. They don’t hear what’s said, they hear what they want to hear. You say rich, they hear “oh, I just need to make 10% more than the average and be a complete loser in every other way and it will all work out great”. So I’m like “but guys, don’t distort what Aaron is saying, because you secretly want to sabotage your success”.
They hearing what they want to hear… well, isn’t that why we read those blogs? I am perfectly sure I will NOT get any new info when I go to Aaron’s blog, or to Heartiste, or to theredpill reddit, BUT I still go there to hear what I already know AGAIN.
Some bloggers notice this, and begin to post only shit that people want to hear over and over again. One of most common topics is the wall. People want to hear that they WILL meet the bitch who ignored him for ten years, poor, ugly and fat, begging for his attention. But in the fact, unless they live next door to each other, it won’t happen. Can’t wait to see the disappointment of MGTOWs when they notice their revenge fantasy isn’t there for them to be seen.
Lol… It’s actually pretty common. I mean if you do even a bit of progressing in your life and meet enough women, you’ll have a ton of these chicks who come begging for your attention. You don’t have to live next door to them.
I’ve easily had hundreds of such scenarios over the past 10 years. Though I do work very hard on constantly moving up the ladder.
For example: chicks who don’t have the time of day for me in 2013, would in 2015 kiss up to me and act like a groupie.
Or some chick who’d act too cool to even interact with me, would in a couple of years get fat and become cartoonishly desperate with me.
Not a fantasy bro… It is real life. Most people meet people through certain niches/circles/communities… the chicks whom you meet through a circle today, they’ll occasionally go through that circle in a couple of years too (even if they’re no longer regulars)… so no, you don’t have to live next door to said chicks in order to get you some good schadenfreude.
Videom from Tom Leykis on the subject:
Aaron: thank you for your blog and books (Minimal Game was eye opening).
In your opinion, how much money does a guy have to make/have saved to be considered attractive to women? I have a job lined up with a CPA firm after I graduate from university, so I’m wondering how long I’ll need to work before I reach that point.
Thanks for your support! If you have time to leave a review on Amazon, I’d greatly appreciate it.
With a solid middle-class income, such as what a CPA leads to, you’ll be seen as a solid choice for a long-term relationship. However, if you want women to literally fuck you because of how much money you have, I’d say we’re talking about 10m+ and a lavish lifestyle. On top, you have to be significantly better off than your peers because eight figures aren’t going to cut it if you swim with billionaires.
I can assure you women do not fuck men because of money unless you are very wealthy. Your CPA job and however long you work there most probably won’t put into that same category of being very wealthy.
Like Aaron said, 10m+ should be a good yardstick. But that number increases as you age. A early 20 something guy with 10m+ would have that life but not probably a 50 year old except for paying hookers.
You are better off trying to improve on things that are much more reasonably improvable. Likewise, a gym membership doesn’t cost much but might have a better effect on your sex life than a million dollars.
By the way, if you really wan’t to be rich, a job is almost always a bad idea.
Good Luck with your new job though.
And it’s true of all attractors actually. Whatever attractor we look at, being high in it (top 10%) merely makes you attractive for relationships. It doesn’t make women want to bang your brains out.
It’s only when you get in the top 0.1% of something that it makes chicks want to bang you because of it.
– So for example having double the average salary isn’t going to make chicks want to bang your brains out. It just makes you really attractive as a provider.
Can be anything really. Like if you’re in the top 10% in singing ability vs top 0.01%… or top 10% authority in a field vs top 0.01% etc…
Ditto… that’s the one factor that stands out. Getting in the top 5% of physique (and doing nothing else) will have a far better effect than getting in the top 5% of another attractor alone.
That’s why i’m into the whole “become top 10% in several areas”… It’s actually easier to get in the top 10% of several things, than to become a 0.1% in one thing.
So, top 5% physique sounds challenging but the bar is kind of somewhat lowered when 75% of everyone is at least overweight, right? But I would guess a top tier physique would approximately fall around a lean 8-12% body fat and overall BMI of about 24-26 or so? I’m pretty sure those numbers take the average person an assload of effort and anything buffer than that would probably require synthetics or an extremely antisocial regimen.
It’s also worth noting that for some guys increasing your BMI is the more challenging part vs losing body fat, myself falling in the former category.
@Pickernanny; If I were you, I would forget all those numbers about BMI and fat percentages entirely. Instead, I’ll try to look good in the mirror.
It depends what you’re aiming for. And your geographic location. Having one million plus won’t impress anyone in Monaco. They consider it pocket money. In most Asian countries they’ll be all over you if you have a million. It also depends on the quality of the women. The higher the quality, the more money you’ll need. And don’t make the mistake of importing a girl from a third world country into an area where you have trouble competing. The moment she’s used to her new lifestyle. She will start looking around to see if she can trade up even more. Location, location, location.
@ben; Point taken. Location is also important.
Yah, top 5% physique compared to the general population, not top 5% compared to gym aficionados.
@ Alek Novy:
“And it’s true of all attractors actually. Whatever attractor we look at, being high in it (top 10%) merely makes you attractive for relationships. It doesn’t make women want to bang your brains out.
It’s only when you get in the top 0.1% of something that it makes chicks want to bang you because of it. ”
What about looks? Does being in the top 10% of men for good looks not make women want to bang you? Top 0.1% sounds way too small.
I already said that in response to the comment about how gym-going gives you better returns. Looks are the one factor where the percentage is better.
That’s why the gym/dieting has the best return. Getting a top 5% physique has similar effects to having top 0.1% earnings (in terms of chicks getting wet over you)…
Numbers are good for setting goals. The mirror only starts becoming useful when get within ballpark of your goal. You can’t set goals on “mirror checks”.
In other words… Nobody knows if you’ll get that chiseled jawline at 11% or 17%…
– But if you’re currently at 25%, you want to set goals. So setting a goal to get to 15% (and then reassess based off of the mirror) is pretty practical. Are you going to set your cardio goals by checking your jawline in the mirror every morning? Not very practical.
@Alek Novy; I was talking about normal guys and not over weight men with 25%+ body fat.
That $10m number… It’s too low. I know we can discuss yields back and forth but assuming a 2% p.a. post tax stable stream of income is most likely possible with a fairly safe investment. And before anybody shouts “but I know an investment which yields 8% per year” we all know most people don’t put all their savings in there.
2% p.a. of 10 mio are just 200k per year which is say 200% of upper average US salary. So, you have 200k per year, don’t have to work but you don’t have really a lot of money to spend every month. Unless of course you tap into those 10 mio and have fun for a short period of time but I doubt anybody on this forum is dumb enough to have fun off his principal.
10mio is the amount to be fairly free. “Rich” is anything with a digit more (better two more).
LOL wtf… it’s the same thing then. How are you going to assess goals looking at the fucking mirror. Let’s say you’re normal… which means you’re 17% and have NO MUSCLE. NORMAL means average, not hot.
DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG it takes on to put on muscle? Are you going to fucking check the mirror to see if your muscles are growing? That’s only possible if you’re on super-heavy doses of steroids. You can’t actually can’t see the changes on a day-to-day basis, or even on a yearly basis… it’s too gradual.
That’s why we use things like numbers to set goals… mr. “I’m too cool for numbers, coz numbers are icky and geeky”.
Lets agree to disagree.
In other words, “normal guys” aren’t within ballpark of a hot “top 5% physique” either. Mirrors are for after you’re in ballpark.
Until then tracking things like “I lifted 10 pounds more than last week” is the way to keep progress and motivation. Your fucking mirror ain’t telling you shit about your workouts from last week until today.
Don’s method for normal guys
Week 1: Look in the mirror… shit i’m normal and average
Week 2: Look in the mirror… shit i’m still normal and average
Week 3: Look in the mirror… shit i’m still normal and average
Week 4: Look in the mirror… shit i’m still normal and average
Week 5: Look in the mirror… shit i’m still normal and average
Week 6: Look in the mirror… shit i’m still normal and average
Week 7: Look in the mirror… shit i’m still normal and average
Week 8: Look in the mirror… shit i’m still normal and average… but hey atleast i’m not one of those geeks who uses numbers to track progress and set ballpark goals…
There is more to looks than just physique though. There is also face, hair, height and fashion/style. By “good looks” I meant handsomeness/facial attractiveness. Do you think women respond as strongly to a man who is in the top 5% for facial attractiveness as they do to someone with a physique in the top 5%?
@Overdrive… the discussion was
A) things you can work on (you can’t grow height)
B) the context was assuming you don’t work on your other factors and you’re focusing on one…
So let me spell it out for you since you didn’t bother deriving the meaning from the context.
– If you achieve a top 5% physique and improve nothing else, you’ll get more pussies wet than if you get to top 5% in earnings.
Does that make sense?
In other words…
It doesn’t matter. Since you can’t choose your parents and get reborn with a different facial structure or work on your height. The discussion is about factors you can control.
” than to become a 0.1% in one thing.”
…Which can be outright impossible in this lifetime.
Exactly. Which is why I hate minmax experts and we had that big discussion on the evils of minmaxing. It’s a dangerous strategy for mortal humans.
Hi aaron- thanks for the reply, I’ll leave a review!
Don: thanks for the input. weight training and eating right has been my focus recently. I’m happy being upper middle class, so I plan to invest more effort in fitness rather than pursuing a lavish lifestyle.
Glad to be of help. I would also suggest approaching women who you truly find giving you boners much more often. That is more important than improving yourself. The caveat being you’ll get rejected too often if you aren’t hot. Why I say this is because of two reasons. One is that you’ll develop a radar for the women who are DTF and the other is that you can gage your progress in improving yourself. You can go to clubs if you are like me unless if you truly despise clubs. Particularly because they are the best. I also know some guys who do well on Tinder.
The most disgusting picture of the century.
It shows a whale being proposed to by a ginger. A classic case of what the fuck.