Meeting Women · Women

Dealing with Fast and Slow Life-History Strategies

One of the obsessions of the former pickup community was to develop a “game plan” that would work for any woman, regardless of age, personality, social class, or personal circumstances. Partly, this was motivated due to marketing as it is a lot simpler to attempt to sell yet another DVD course that promises to hold the secret to getting any woman you want, but partly this was also due to people genuinely being pretty clueless about women. The latter is not a surprise. In fact, if a guy, self-proclaimed PUA or otherwise, gets nowhere with women, it is understandable why he would think that women are all quite similar. After all, they all reject him, no matter what.

In the real world, however, there are quite significant differences between women. Naturally, you therefore need to be able to alter your approach if you want to get anywhere with them. Note that this step comes after you have figured out which kind of woman you would like to target. Basically, figure out if the woman you are talking to is pursuing a fast or a slow life-history strategy. Women in the former camp are impulsive and thus do not always make the best decisions. On the plus side, there is a chance that she happily takes your dick despite knowing virtually nothing about you. Conversely, women pursuing a slow life-history strategy take their time before making key decisions. For such women, with whom to sleep with is a key decision whereas women pursuing a fast life-history strategy may be somewhat indifferent to this question and sometimes fuck a guy based on convenience. As long as she thinks you are good enough for one night she happily follows you home.

The practical implication is that you should not stall when a woman is pursuing a fast life-history. She will simply lose interest in you if you do. Besides, she is probably talking to three other guys anyway. With these women you need to move fast. If you do not, you will be “boring”, and the moment she has some other guy’s dick in her, she will have forgotten about you already. If you wonder why some women who seem to be really into you suddenly ghost you, this is a very likely reason. She was really into you when you were hanging out with her but you, wanting to be a “gentleman”, did not push towards sex. For such women, this feels like a bitter rejection.

Women pursuing a slow life-history strategy require a much different approach. They want to first get to know the guy, but sexual attraction is nonetheless a prerequisite. They do not string you along, at least not in this scenario, but instead need to feel assured that you are trustworthy and not just some random guy who only wants to pump-and-dump one chick after the other. Thus, she is taking her time also in order to weed out guys who are too impatient. In such situations, escalating too fast will make her feel uncomfortable and if you are too persistent, she will find a face-saving excuse to leave, and you will not see her again.

There is the claim that if the guy is attractive enough, even a woman who otherwise would need to get to know a suitor over the course of a few weeks or perhaps even months before having sex with him would readily spread her legs. I do not think that this is necessarily true. Sure, you may think that a guy like Leonardo DiCaprio could walk into the VIP lounge of any club and get whoever woman he wants, but instead only a particular kind of woman would go for him, as he has quite a reputation. Thus, a woman who has her head screwed on firmly would ask herself what reason this guy would have to go for her, regardless of whether we are talking about a young actress or model, or a regular woman. Here, the assumption is that not all women are completely deluded and think that they are a 10 or that regardless of how low her socioeconomic status is, no guy, no matter how rich and famous, is above her.

Obviously, there are women out there who want to bang famous men so that they can brag about it, but not everybody cares about this. To use a different example: you are probably all familiar with the groupie phenomenon. Even bands who are only moderately successful will have a whole string of women line up. Then, the guys in the band only have to pick a few and gesture them to join them backstage or in the bus. However, it is not the case that every hot woman, let alone every woman in the audience lines up for a quick bang. Only a very small minority does that. When I was more interested in hipster music, and even went to a few concerts, I got some pretty good anecdotes about that. In one case, the band had the tour bus parked outside the venue, which held perhaps 800 people. In front of the tour bus perhaps 25 women were lining up. Admittedly, a few of them were very good-looking but most were just tarted up relatively average-looking women. There were many more attractive or very attractive women who did not care about getting railed by some dudes in a band.

53 thoughts on “Dealing with Fast and Slow Life-History Strategies

  1. Good post. Looking back in my life what you write is completely true. I remember how I didn’t escalate fast enough with a chick – who then suddenly lost interest. The person was very loose – so definitely fast-life.
    I also remember doing something which all PUAs would advise against – I was being „romantic“ and courting a woman for a longer time. It worked because she was slow-life and came from a traditional background.

    But I do wonder – how can you tell what type of woman you are dealing with? Or should you always pursue a fast-life strategy until the woman shows you that she is not a fast-life person?

    1. I have the same question. Especially because when I think of different girls they seem to meet criteria for both as described.

      Even girls who are otherwise slow will get impulsive or get super angry and feel rejected if you don’t try to bang them.

      I mean I had girls who took it super slow before they finally showed sexual interest back, but if I didn’t bang them the same minute they started shows sexual interest, they’d get angry and hurt, like the fast girls.

    2. Those are interesting cases. I have encountered these two outlier cases related to my article as well:

      1) I had one chick on the slow-track who took two or three weeks until she was willing to come to my place. She invited herself, actually, and quite surprisingly. Then, she hyper-aggressively escalated, pulling my dick out and telling me how big and beautiful it was. I found this completely off-putting because it confirmed my suspicion that she was simply a run-of-the-mill whore who pretended otherwise. For once, she wanted to be taken seriously as a person and not just appreciated for her holes. I kicked her out because I found her behavior too manipulative, considering that she went from good girl to total whore at the drop of a hat. She did not see this coming. The thought that such an immediate behavioral change would completely undermine the facade she attempted to create did not seem to have occurred to her. This was an example of a woman who suddenly wanted to escalate quickly, after a period of slow-dating. Women who are a bit more constrained will of course want you to escalate quickly so that she can go back to being a dirty whore in bed.

      2) Some other chick I banged on the first night and there was no indication that she was particularly interested in me as a person. Yet, she somehow got the idea that I could potentially be more than a handsome loser, and she completely changed her behavior afterwards. Suddenly, she was no longer a random slut, ready to take your dick anytime you wanted her to. No, now she wanted to learn more about me so that she could shape me into her ideal boyfriend. This was one of the women I met who looked up job ads for me and urged me to get my life back on track. Her (and their) hope was that if they could turn me into a good provider, they would get the best of both worlds, i.e. the mythical Chad-provider.

    3. “ Even girls who are otherwise slow will get impulsive or get super angry and feel rejected if you don’t try to bang them”

      Great comment – I also had that experience.

    4. Oh I didn’t mean that kind of extreme. In those cases its obvious they were faking the slowness.

      I was just referring to the part where they get angry you don’t bang them the moment they decided to bang you. Like one chick who was very slow, suddenly got very impulsive about having to come by my place for something else. Then showed up in short-shorts and was 10x less shy than ussualy. But she was still shy, nowhere near grabbing your D level. And when I sent her home coz I had work to do after we did (what her excuse for coming was), she got angry at me and offended and rejected and cold to me for months after that. It was like a shy (slow) girl who finally got the courage to try and flirt/show some sexuality (nowhere near whore level).

    5. “Her (and their) hope was that if they could turn me into a good provider, they would get the best of both worlds, i.e. the mythical Chad-provider.”

      We used to wonder why certain women are so fixated on trying to fix “bad boys”. a decade later when we now know all this blackpill stuff,looking at it from this angle,it all makes sense now.

      Unfortunately,this is like the female version of trying to turn a hoe into a housewife. (I’m not referring to you specifically Aaron in case this gets misunderstood,but on “handsome losers” in general) It does sometimes happen,but its probably not going to happen by your hand.

    6. @Alek

      Perhaps she was pushed to it by her friends, but the courage she worked up failed halfway through.

      Either that, or maybe psychiatric medication affected her attitude. Perhaps she started taking some pills? Or conversely, perhaps she was taking something, and stopped taking it? I have seen people change like that when their medications go off.

    7. Perhaps she was pushed to it by her friends, but the courage she worked up failed halfway through.

      In the case of that one particular girl, yes, this is the impression I got. I literally thought “I bet some of her friends encouraged her and they sat around saying this is the day you get this done”.

      But that’s just one anecdote. In general I want to say girls tend to show both fast and slow signals. Whatever the reason might be.

    8. In at least one case, I had the annoyingly opposite happen to me.

      I sort of picked up a waitress at a medium sized town – I was the only customer left, and the owner was kinda drunk. I overheard some sexually themed comments between them and jokingly piled on when she came to serve me another beer. This led to a flirting exchange between us, and we agreed that I would pick her up after her shift was over.

      She told me to pick her up at her friends house, which was nearby, and by the time i got there she suddenly ghosted. I cannot prove it, but I am pretty certain her friend talked her out of it.

  2. Great post. Anyone who has bought into the lunacy of a PUA telling you that you can get a Catholic virgin into bed should read. Also, some people may think that it’s impossible to get with a traditional girl or think they don’t exist, and thus, lack the know how necessary to win her over if she ever wanders into your life. Every unmarried guy should read this basically.

  3. @Yarara, I keep forgetting to ask you.

    You’ve mentioned your lay counts (frequency of new lays), but I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned where most of them come from. Like how do you meet them, via what context?

    1. Its a mixed bag, really. Some of them come from my extended professional circle, and these usually turn into regulars for a time. I have a certain reputation, so they know what to expect.

      A large amount, perhaps 2/3, come from tinder matches. This is most effective in smaller cities and towns, where I travel a lot. I am an outsider, so I have the comparative advantage of bringing some variety (and better quality) to an otherwise limited dating pool.

      A couple of my regulars, who I have seen on and off for several years, I picked up old style by asking their number when I met them at the stores they worked in. One of them lives 250km away, so I drop by whenever I stop at her medium sized city. Sometimes she gets a boyfriend and we stop seeing each other for a few months, or even a couple years, and then pick it up again when she breaks up.

      Every year I go travelling somewhere, usually backpacking and staying in hostels, or staying with locals, and this is a great way to meet girls who are in a, lets say, adventurous mood. When meeting local girls it helps to be an outsider, in addition to the “exotic” factor of being a foreigner, you are not part of any social circle of hers so it can be kept discreet.

      And finally, on at least a couple of occasions, a girl I dated openly recommended me and set me up to fuck one of her friends. Sharing is caring, I suppose… 🙂

    2. May I ask how old you are,Yarara?

      Aaron’s discussed it a few times,but we can’t keep up having casual (non-paid) sex indefinitely,as we too,will eventually hit the wall. But I wonder how far you can push it as a non-celebrity. Maybe if you really play your cards right,you can play it till late 30’s or even early 40’s?

    3. @Yarrara
      So most of your tinder lays are from travelling, leveraging the outsider benefit.

      Are most of your non-tinder lays also from travelling?

    4. @Maou

      Without being too specific, I am in my upper 30s. Most of my lays are in the 22-30 range, some outliers are in the 30-35 range. I only rarely date women my age, although one of my regulars I mentioned, who I have been seeing on and off over the years is 36, she has amazing genetics and a body that most 20yo girls would envy (she briefly modeled underwear a few years ago). And I have fucked women who were in their early 40s only once or twice.

      I am aware of our own wall, and I am aware that I am approaching an age where I will have to start paying more attention to self care. I rarely work out, that is something I must change. I used to practice martial arts long ago, but I have not been able to do so for over a decade due to the erratic nature of my work travel schedule.

      I have been reasonably in shape so far, while I never had a 6 pack, I have been more or less within the appropiate weight range for me, perhaps 3 to 6kg overweight most of the time. A lot of my work includes being active outdoors, so its not like I am an office drone immobile at a desk. Also, I am starting to consider the need to implement some preventive skincare routine, but I have not dug in deeply.

      I know Alek mentioned this in recent threads, so I would like to hear more from him on the topic. I recall you mentioned a procedure, (I think it was ultheraphy?) that was cheap and had good results for you?

      In any case, it is inevitable that as we age our pickup strategies will require adjustments, centering more on status and money than on looks. And widening our standards a bit in terms of looks and age range. That is, as long as we dont want to outright pay for hookers or sugar babies.

      I also get plenty of tinder matches here in Buenos Aires, but ofc there is a lot more competition and the conversion rate of matches to dates is much less favorable than in smaller towns. My understanding is that I am doing remarkably well as far as tinder goes, since lots of guys barely get any matches at all.

      I dont consistently use it here, most of the time I actually leave my profile hidden. But when I use it consistently, I can usually get at least a match per day or so. Over the last 2 years I have accumulated approx 300 matches or so. I have yet to try Bumble, but some buddies of mine who are in my age range or older say they have had more success there than on Tinder.

      My non-tinder lays are mostly from my extended professional circle, where I have some status. I may occasionally still pick up a girl on the streets if I see indicators of interest, but tbh I have been kind of jaded to attempt this lately.

    5. “That is, as long as we dont want to outright pay for hookers or sugar babies.”

      Alek mentioned an interesting fact quite awhile ago,that its not uncommon for Sugar Babies to genuinely fall in love with their Sugar Daddies. (Hope Aaron improves the search engine even more in the future. its a major pain to search for previous articles and comments,but still props for it being better than before) Aside from Money/Status,it probably also has to do with the fact that very successful people tend share many positive personal traits,so over the course of a certain amount of time,the long term mating instinct probably kicks in. (and maybe the Oxytocin from repeatedly having sex playing a factor as well.)

      so interestingly,sugar daddying doesn’t necessarily have to be equivalent to betabuxxing,and you might actually still have a shot at finding true love if you can find yourself in this position. (assuming you even want to at that point…) Probably the most important thing though is that the girl genuinely respects you despite the relationship being clear cut transactional.

    6. I have considered the sugardaddying thing, but I will try and coast on my looks as long as I still have some.

      I still have my eyes open in case I come across a decent girl to settle down with, in which case I am willing to drop the dating and focus on her. Its not easy finding wife material, tho.

      In case I dont get to settle down, I will definitely go for sugar babies. While I have never paid outright for sex, I have had sexually transactional relationships that turned out to be refreshingly honest and straightforward.

      And yes, some of them fall in love with you over time.

    7. Yarara, I would start skincare yesterday if I was you; when you finally do it, you’re going to be luck “fuck, why didn’t I start this sooner” and have all sorts of “why didn’t i start sooner” regrets.

      I’ve never done ultherapy or any procedure, only skincare. My skincare-only results have already blown past any ultherapy (or procedure) results. Nowadays I consistently am rated as looking 10 years younger by 3 different age-detection apps. I started 7 months ago.

      Things like ultherapy are for impatient people. In theory it does the same thing as 12 months of skincare in just 2 treatments, but it also depends on practicioner skill and if done wrongly can age you instead of making you younger. Skincare route always looks natural. Both procedures and skincare boost collagen in the face to get it to youthful collagen levels, same mechanism, different ways to achieve it. I prefer and recommend skincare route.

      @Older comments

      I also had issues with the search, and google censoring this blog doesn’t help. I often remember something useful shared by some commenter here, and then later I cant find it. Found that bing is better for this.


      When I saw your question yesterday, i didn’t want to reply because I was going to be mean haha. I mean “late 30s means you have to give up and stop?”; That would only be true if you still haven’t started getting results, then yes, you should give up in your 30s. But if you’re actively banging chicks and on an upwards trajectory, hell fucking no, it the 40s can be your best years.

      That means you should be panicking right now though, coz it takes 10 years to achieve that upward trajectory. If you’re turning 30, you better get going at building up that status and systems to bring you pussy, because if you don’t have it built by 40, you will have to give up yes. A guy who’s actively banging like Yarrara only needs to add gym and skincare to get another 10 years in.

    8. In other words, it doesn’t make sense to me that you can get laid like crazy at 35 and magically need to stop at 38. Make sense? There is nothing that magically happens to you at exactly 37.5; We call it the wall with women precisely because it is sudden and like hitting a wall. With guys there are no sudden abrupt changes like that.

      Now if you’re 35 and haven’t done anything and there’s no prospect of getting anywhere, then yeah you should decide to give up at 37 if you still haven’t started that upward curve.

    9. No,no. its fine,Alek. The amount of experience I personally have is definitely embarrassingly low compared to most of the regular readers here,I’m sure.

      You’ve talked in the past,of how being sucked in by PUA robbed you of your best years. In my case,it was college. (I mean,I would say that applies to my country’s school system as a whole,but I didn’t have the power to choose my parents or the country I was born in,so lets stick with something I did have the power to influence had I known better back in the day)

      Had I known back then what I know now,I probably would have tried to talk my folks into letting me take a short vocational course. Instead I ended up wasting 7 years of my life post-high school,because my father was trying to force me into college courses (I had to jump courses 3 times) I simply didn’t have it in me to pass nor was I at all in the right state of mind (I think I’ve already shared my general background with you guys. I definitely had PTSD.) to be in any shape whatsoever to pursue any serious study courses. Heck,maybe I could have jumped straight into the workplace to at least earn some money and figure something out from there.

      Even back then,I felt deep down I was headed down the wrong path,but I wasn’t brave enough to tell my father (who was threatening me with financial cut off) this back then because I had no inkling at all of what I know now. My college degree hasn’t netted me actual real life benefit outside of being able to tell people I’m a college graduate. 7 years of my life down the drain just to “not be a shameful bum who hadn’t even finished college” (my parents’ words)

      That’s enough of my personal sob story for now,but I think my life thus far is a cautionary tale about College. If you are not mentally ready for whatever reason,I’d say you’re better off either entering the workplace right away or taking the shortest vocational courses if you really need to just have a degree.

      Chances are,my days of NEET’ing to focus solely on weight loss will have to end this April (not guaranteed),and I’ll be working at a family-related establishment (Part-time too if I’m lucky.),then perhaps be able to figure out how to climb the ladder (Regarding my life I mean,not necessarily the family establishment) from there.

      I sincerely want to finish the fat loss,but I do realize that maybe it would be the better move overall for my life to settle for being chubby (at least I’m no longer morbidly obese) for now and focus efforts on figuring out how to make bank and build status.

      I realize my position is far from the worst though. Just the fact that I can work in a family establishment eases a lot of trouble for me I’m sure. But I felt it was worth pointing out that having been forced to waste those years getting a college degree that ultimately didn’t even matter was a major blow to my potential development.

    10. I have the same story, it was not PUA that wasted my 20s, it was forcing myself to do something I didn’t love, which was impress my academia minded parents, they’re both university professors. I also wasted 8 years on university instead of starting businesses or other better ventures.

    11. I…I’m definitely surprised to learn this,Alek.

      and I guess it also gives me some hope. Truth be told,its not ending up on poor that I’m afraid of,I think my family connections more or less gives me a great (albeit not guaranteed) chance of never ending up there.

      What I really fear right now is living a life of mediocrity. When I first graduated high school,to say my self-esteem (the only thing I could be proud of back then was my ability to fight. Maybe my dad should have gotten me into MMA,lol!) was in the gutter would have been an understatement. My aspirations back then were very simple: Living a quiet simple (if secluded) life. When I was in college,I was finally not getting picked on and not getting into fights. I was finally savoring peace and quiet. I didn’t care that I wasn’t getting laid when I had the internet at my finger tips back home. I didn’t care about anything else except that peace and quiet staying with me forever. I just slotted in my attendance,did what I can to do the bare minimum before going home to enjoy myself on my computer.

      I said what I said about college,and I maintain that it was a major waste of my time and life,but I do give it credit for being responsible for forcing me to be social (to get projects done) and helping me get achievements that I think had a compounding effect on my long term self-esteem. I would not have regretted college if it were like a 2-3 year stay to graduate,which I would have gotten with a vocational course.

      Today,I would not want to be a hermit whose only life is on the computer. There is a lot of things I want to do. I’ve met people online whom I’d want to meet in person,etc. I guess it follows that a healthier self-esteem leads to bigger aspirations? I would never have gone into the gym if I didn’t think I could achieve at least some degree of greatness. My lifts are unimpressive by internet gymbro standards,but somehow most people I’ve met in person in the gym have been impressed by my lifts. I lift more than the personal trainers where I am.

      Sometimes I wonder if I’m ridiculous for this. if I’m the equivalent of the woman who laments she can’t nab her 6666 package Chad (6ft,6 pack,6 figures,6 get me,lol) when she could settle for the decent chap on the block. I feel like actually have a shot though of achieving the above (I’ve got a passport and family who live in various countries) so I don’t think so.

    12. It’s baffling how big of a dud college turned out to be. Get in your time machine and try to remember how it was sold in the 90s and 2000s. Not just for careers but for everything. Social life, dating, prestige. What a crock of shit. I honestly bet that the universities colluded with the banks to lie to an entire generation. Put them in hock the rest of their lives. When there father’s worked blue collar jobs and got by fine.

    13. Well, lots of things to reply to here


      Well, since you put it so urgently… lets dive in! I remember from past posts that you have been experimenting with different skincare products. Since we are all currently piling on the search (dis)function of the blog, would you mind sharing again:

      What product(s) are giving you the best result?

      What would the priority areas be where we should apply them?

      Is there any particular technique for application?

      Any online resource you can recommend as reliable in order to learn more?

      As to workout, I will have to get serious with working out at home or with minimal accessories. I remember Aarons old site over at Blogspot had a few good threads on this, I will see if I can fish them out this weekend.

      Btw, in case you guys ever wondered about my username, Yarará (only 1 “r”, and accent on the last “a”) is a type of venomous snake common to South America. The bites are dangerous, but they are generally not aggressive, so deaths are quite rare. I encounter them in the wild from time to time.

    14. Regarding college, yes, the value of a university diploma has fallen precipitously over the last decades.

      There is not one single culprit. For starters. Institutional capacity is eroding all over the West generally.

      The decay of secondary school systems mean students arrive less prepared for college.

      Masification of anything that used to be elite will invariably trend to mediocrity.

      For profit private universities are chasing students, when it should be the other way around.

      The academic-industrial complex rewards the appearances of knowledge generation, not necessarily the actual creation of useful knowledge.

      Some careers definitely require serious in depth study that only a university can provide, mostly in STEM, medicine, law… but a lot of other degrees in social sciences and liberal arts are basically an expensive exercise in social signaling meant to be seen by future employers, and to signal ro your social circle that you have attained a necessary status.

      A lot of kids would be much better off going to technical school and going into the trades. You can make better money than many college grads.

      And yes, I work in a university, part time. I would not say my studies there was time wasted, I did learn a lot, and my parents could afford it with little effort (in Argentina, even a private university is cheap compared to USA. Part of it is the fact that we have commuter colleges all over the place, both public (free) and private.

    15. “Masification of anything that used to be elite will invariably trend to mediocrity.”

      – That’s the unfortunate truth of selling to the masses,yeah. That happened with Traditional Martial Arts,as another example. Once upon a time,Karate used to be a full-contact practice that produced legit fighters but eventually,folks wanted it to be taught to little kids(children’s classes are the bread and butter of where the money is to be made in this biz) and obviously it had to be watered down for the Karens. And thus was the beginning of its de-evolution in the mainstream and today,its a joke that will get the snot beaten out of you by anyone half-competent in a fight.

      This isn’t to say you can’t find a good school that didn’t fall into this de-evolution,but they are a tiny minority. you’d really have to know where to look to find them. You have a much better shot finding good MMA.

      Even in regular gyms,you see this. You see people not lifting to the intensity they need to actually produce results,and instead make up stupid and dangerous exercises like barbell squatting on a bosu ball.

      Normies love their gimmicks I guess,even if they are ineffective.

    16. Thanks for mentioning squats on a bosu ball. When I first came across it, I thought this was a “meme” or a prank, but there are people who take this seriously. The lack of common sense is quite staggering.

  4. @Skincare

    – Start by taking standardized photos so you can track progress. Standard place, at night, same artificial lighting. Use facialage(dotcom), howolddoyoulook(dotcom) and age.toolpie(dotcom);

    – Sunscreen is a must, it freezes times and stops skin aging, means if you started using nothing but sunscreen at 27, you could reach 50 and still pas as a guy in his 30s; better late than never, especially in combination with the other stuff

    In terms of areas, I screwed this up, glad you asked

    Currently when I take a photo with my hair covering my forehead, all the apps say I look 10 years younger… if I part my hair and it doesn’t fully cover my forehead, it says I only look 5 years younger. Can you guess why?

    I wasn’t applying anything to my forehead for the first 5-6 months… So my forehead is my actual chronological age. Earlier I had made (and corrected) a similar error where I wasn’t applying it on the jawline… then about 2-3 months in I noticed “wait, why is my jawline area looking saggy?” My midface was getting tighter… I thought I was being clever and saving a few cents by only applying to midface. Apply everywhere, forehead and chin/jawline included, don’t make my mistake.

    The other important thing to note is eyes. It’s the number one indicator of aging. So make sure not to miss the under eye area (crow’s feet included)

    Also, another thing I didn’t figure out for months (coz nobody told me) is that dynamic lines are a big indicator of aging, and they’re not affected by most anti-aging skincare. A dynamic line is what happens when you make an emotion.

    So I was at a point where I think my face at rest was 7 years younger, but if I made any emotional expression, it said I was my actual age (or even older!) I was like WAIT i did all this work and I only made myself look younger “as long as I don’t make any facial expressions?!??!” But then I started focusing on dynamic lines as well.

    In terms of skincare, there’s a ton, but the high ROI stuff is:

    1) Adapelene (clinical retinoid which is safest and over the counter in most countries), goes by the brand name Differin in the USA. Best proven in terms of reversing skin age. It’s the GOAT, everything else is secondary.

    2) Multi-peptide serums are convenient and high roi (I recommend Ordinary’s multi peptide serum). It includes argireline (which reduces dynamic wrinkles).

    You can start with these 2 “actives”, this would be the 90/10; I do a lot more, this is the 90/10;

    Note skincare always includes a moisturizer and sunscreen, those are a given. So if you use the above 2:

    In morning:
    1) You wake up, put on the multi-peptide, then some minutes later
    2) You can put the moisturizer, wait a few, and put on the sunscreen

    At night:

    1) You put on the multi-peptide, recommended wait is 2-3 mins, but since I work at home, I don’t rush it to put on the next thing, not in a hurry
    2) Put on adapelene, wait 30 mins for it to work its way in
    3) Put on moisturizer, ready for bed

    Note: You can put multi-peptide serum under the eyes area, which is great since your eye area is your biggest show of aging. And you can’t put adapalene under eyes (most people can’t), too sensitive. Personally I buy cosmetic retinol for under-eye area. It’s a good excuse to shop at big cosmetics stores, and you’re probably going to pick up some chicks doing it.

    1. Thanks for sharing that, Alek. You were the one to prompt me to do skincare. I have another thing to add. Train yourself to sleep on your back. Side sleeping, and especially stomach sleeping, fucks your skin up by creating mechanical tension.

    2. @CyclePath:

      Are you sure about that advice? If true, that’s interesting. I’ve always slept on my back, though supposedly it encourages snoring which in turn brings about some health issues.

    3. Comment in dire need of proofreading. I realize that last bit might be confusing

      Basically, adapalene is one of the so called retinoids. It is a potent clinical form. There also exist some weak cosmetic ones.

      You can’t put a strong retinoid under your eyes. So when you get to the retinoid step you have two options

      A) Apply only adapalene and place it everywhere except under the eyes
      B) Put some weaker cosmetic retinoid designed for under eye area

      Routine as a whole

      You shouldn’t use retinoids during the day, which is why you only see if in nightly routine, which looks like this

      – cleanse face
      1) Multi peptide step: put everywhere including under eyes
      2) Retinoid step: Place adapalene everywhere except under eyes; and optionally also place a retinoid eye cream under the eyes
      3) Moisturizer

    4. @Manuel

      Sure enough to incorporate it into my lifestyle. It explains some asymmetry I have in my smile lines. Also that Chris Gibson dude recommended by Alek says the same thing.

      You are right that back sleeping may cause some problems, so there are trade offs. But I think side/stomach sleeping is bad for everyone’s skin, whereas back sleeping is only bad for people with some conditions.

    5. @Yarara

      I have had sexually transactional relationships that turned out to be refreshingly honest and straightforward.

      Can you expand on this with more details? How did you get into these arrangements? Was there any explicit conversation or you just started gifting them things and it was assumed?

    6. Ok, thanks for the concise recommendations. I have been looking a little bit online and it seems adapelene is not widely available in my country. The algorithms are trying hard to steer me to other options that have similar applications (acne treatment, apparently) but different ingredients.

      Do you have any idea what the next best thing is? Otherwise I will have to wait for my next trip to Europe and get it from Amazon there.

      I see hyaluronic acid being promoted a lot, but a quick google search casts doubts about its effectivity. I suspect that the cosmetic industry is rife with bullshit, thats one reason I have tended to ignore it.

      As to your other question…. well, a couple of times it was basically we give each other sex, no other strings attached, and this was an explicit arrangement. In one case it included an almost geisha-type component, where our dates were also intellectually very engaging and well informed.

      In another case it was mostly assumed, she got to hang out with me at my fancy hotel with swimming pool and eating and drinking on my dime for a day or two each time I went there.

      One last example I can remember was from a young girl from Colombia who was working at a hostel for free lodging, and basically broke. It was not explicitly stated, but I got the strong impression that at times she went on dates in order to get to eat, and felt the obligation to reward the guys with sex. The sex felt forced and unenthusiastic, like a chore, so I did not call her up again,

    7. Yarara

      The first one sounds just like a regular fb situation, I missed the transactional part of it.

      As for adapelene, what do you mean not available? It’s not registered in that country at all under any brand-name? That’s very unlikely. Or did you mean not available without prescription? You can Google how people obtain it. For example in my country it’s supposed to be rx, but you walk into any pharmacy, say give me a tube of (adapelene brand) and they do, no questions asked.

      The other options are what pickernanny discussed in earlier discussions. He orders from such websites and gets it in the mail. You can also book a dermatologist appointment if you have to have a prescription (again, unlikely)

    8. @Alek

      Yeah, it dawned on me after i clicked “post” that you probably meant transactional in a slightly different way, where she gets some strictly material (or status) benefit in exchange for the sex. To my mind, a fuckbuddy arrangement is transactional in a way too, but I get that its different from a more clear-cut material benefit, which i understand is what you have in mind. The second and third examples still apply, tho.

      I went to a pharmacy today, got a moisturizer for starters. One problem I quickly run into is that there is a huge variety of cremes, gels and lotions promising more or less similar things, and since I am profoundly unfamiliar with all of this, I find myself unsure which ones are best suited. So I got one from a laboratory that at least I know is good.

      I could not find adapalene there or online (at MercadoLibre, which is our equivalent of Amazon). It seems from archived search results that it was available at some point, but not currently. It wont show up with any of the most common trade names as listed on wikipedia. I will try again elsewhere in the near future.

      I have not been able to further research the multi-peptide you mentioned,I saw some things that looked similar, but since the language is different and the brand names are different, it will take a little figuring out….

      I tried out the facial age tools you mentioned, with about half a dozen photos. The results were all over the place. The selfie I just took in my bathroom, which I intend to use as a baseline for progress, says I am between 40 and 42, depending on which tool you asked. I find this a bit strange, since no one I meet ever thinks I am above 40, most commonly people think I am at least 2-3 years younger than I am. I uploaded all the same photos, and the results for all three tools cluster around the same values, +/-1 year for the same picture, so they are seemingly consistent.

      However, I cropped my face from a few other recent photos (less than 6 months) and uploaded that, and the results ranged from 30 to 36, depending on the photo. On some I am wearing a cap or sunglasses, which surely affect the result. Another possible reason is whether I have a beard or not. Will check that out soon

    9. Well, I said what the hell, lets try right now… I just shaved clean and tried another closeup bathroom selfie. All three tools now agree my age has dropped about 3-4 years.

      Which is a bit weird, because I dont have that much of a beard to begin with, it does not grow very fast and I usually shave every couple weeks.

      Anyway, we have now established that it affects the tools judgement, so I will have to factor in my beard or absence of it when uploading selfies.

  5. For the ordinary multi-peptide you order it online at the ordinary(dotcom). Order a bigger bottle and you’re good for 3 months.

    Until you figure out the adapelene thing, you can start with a cosmetic retinoid. For example L’Oreal revitalift, but really any retinol in a cosmetics store. It’s twice as slow as clinical retinoids (adapelene, tretinoin) but better than nothing.

    As for how adapelene is sold in your country you will need to do research. For example I found the government drugs registry and searched adapalene to see how it is sold. But better to start with a cosmetic retinoid from a cosmetics store where you can meet hotties anyway, until you figure out how to get the stronger stuff.

    1. As for the age tools. That happened to everyone I know. They all said “everyone says I look younger than my age, but the tools detect my actual age or 1 year older”.

      That’s actually good since you can better track progress. These tools aren’t affected by vibe, demeanor and other things that make you look younger to people in real life.

      Use the setting under which you’re told consistently you look 40. I stand against a wooden door at night as artificial lighting is consistent. I wouldn’t recommend mirror selfie.

      My results are consistent with that, only affected by bad sleep (sleeping less than 8 hours ages me by 5 years) and the only difference is if my forehead is covered or not. Otherwise stable and consistent.

      Lighting affects it quite a lot, and something like a cap will make you younger because it hides the aging on top of head. Also lighting that washes out features will make you look younger. Like a group photo in the day. That’s why the tools say large photo with your face taking up most of the image. If it’s a crop from a larger photo it has less details.

    2. Personally I used cosmetic retinol mostly and still got good results. It was actually Pickernanny on here who convinced me to stop fooling around and get tretinoin or adapalene.

      In the first 4 months I only used cosmetic retinol, and even after pickernanny convinced me to get the real deal, I still had to mostly use cosmetic because I had bought to much and needed to spend it, so I used like 3 to 1 cosmetic vs adapelene. I’m only noa reaching a point where I’ll finally only use adapalene.

    3. Another reason to go for the cosmetic retinoids first: I have medical 0.05% tretinoin and I can’t use it daily cause it’s too much and I get red skin and some burning sensation. So I use it 2-4 times a week. But at that rate, why not use a weaker one daily? And you can buy weaker one without prescription.

    4. oK, I got myself the L’Oreal Revitalift, lets see how that works out for a start.

      I found the multi-peptide by Ordinary online here, is is supposed to cost $75 for that tiny (15ml) bottle? Anyway, I think I will buy that later this week.

      And there were indeed 3 or 4 hotties in the cosmetic section of the pharmacy, but I went dressed as a slob and in no condition to talk to them. 🙂

    5. Wow no that’s super expensive. You can order from the actual ordinary. At theordinary(dotcom).

      Resellers for ordinary in my country do the same and add insane markup just because people don’t know that ordering from the actual theordinary website is pretty convenient and relatively fast.

      Btw I learned this by googling and finding discussions on girls beauty forums, just like the adapalene thing. I was going to order ordinary from an insanely marked up reseller as well.

      I don’t know at what amount you qualify for free shipping. In my country it’s at just 25 euros. You might need to order 2 things to qualify. Even though international it’s still relatively quick, like 2 weeks.

    6. Ok, good to know. I will check out if the other one is available here. But yeah, markups for imported stuff can be crazy here.

      I wouldnt mind waiting 6 months and getting it next time I visit Europe. Shipping to South America is tricky, lots of stuff gets stolen from the mail, and sending by courier becomes as expensive as paying the local dealer markup. Also, I suspect that with a bit more research into the components I will find a local product that is close enough.

      Anyway, its a start. Lets see how this goes.

    7. I wouldnt mind waiting 6 months and getting it next time I visit Europe. Shipping to South America is tricky, lots of stuff gets stolen from the mail, and sending by courier becomes as expensive as paying the local dealer markup.

      Same in my country, in fact it’s why I postponed getting stuff from the ordinary, and now I regret delaying. From my experiences with shipping it either takes a long time and gets stolen, or to avoid it to you have to use an expensive option.

      Not so with the ordinary, they use some special thing which is just like expensive shipping, yet for free. Including exact tracking when it arrives (like expensive fedex or dhl, but again, for free) No idea how they do it. It’s just $33 to order that bottle and see what happens. I delayed doing it just like you, for the same reasons, I was imagining the worst scenarios seeing that it’s free shipping. Did not expect a fedex/dhl like experience for free.

    8. I don’t know if this is relevant to mention here,but roids will apparently age you faster:

      I guess more reason to not even consider using the shit until you’re like late 40’s or 50’s. The more I read,the more it seems even doing that steroid hack thing we spoke of (temporarily using just to permanently get above the natural limit) doesn’t seem like its worth the trouble.

    9. I have come across anecdotal evidence of this phenomenon in the past. Assuming it is true, steroids would just be another example of a supposed shortcut boomeranging and causing long-term harm. Your remark about only temporarily using steroids reminds me of how some people talk about consumer debt, gambling, drugs, or banging women they should stay away from. They tell themselves that it’s an exception or that they could drop this habit any time. Steroids also have addictive effects, based on what I have read, so it’s probably better to not mess with them.

  6. Just an aside, fun anecdote. I met a woman from China and used the facialagetool on her. She is 36 years old in reality, but facial age says she is 22! Go asian genes!!

    1. I have a south Asian friend. He’s 40 and still picking up 19 year olds in clubs in LA. He’s like “I look young”… And I’m like “everyone says that”. Ran him through the age checkers, they say he looks 29.

      I think the training data also matters.

    2. AFAIK she does not have kids, at least it did not come up.

      BTW Alek, what country are you based in? I seem to remember eastern europe?

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