Open Thread

Open Thread #313

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26 thoughts on “Open Thread #313

  1. Aaron in the other thread you posted “ Of course you can make massive improvements.”.

    Using can as an “hypothetical” and thinking about improvements in the context for picking up women’s – so improvements which help you massively improve with picking women.

    I wonder in which areas you think people can make massive improvements?

    I would have: money
    I would have: if you are fat, getting fit.

    Anything else?

    1. The list of areas where you can make massive improvements would probably be endless. You need resources, willpower, and intelligence, and then you can get better at anything you set your mind to. I am not saying that everybody can become a top-level performer, but by making a solid effort you can certainly pick up new skills and improve existing ones. Once you are older and in physical as well as intellectual decline, you may not be able to improve much but you still will be able to stagnate or at least slow the decline. In this regard, I am thinking of my late grandfather, who was physically active until the very end. It is no exaggeration that he was in better shape than men half his age. The guy was chopping wood for hours in his 80s! Others in his age suffered from large-scale muscle atrophy as they spent 14 hours a day sitting in front of the TV.

    2. Status and lifestyle. Which can scale with money. Your looks due to age going down decline gradually. Your status can 10x, 100x, or even 1000x. Of course most guys won’t, we’re talking about can.

    3. Basically, anything which is skill based you can get better at, and some skills have no upper cap. So you can get 10x, 100x, 1000x better than the average guy.

      Skills generally bring money if you pick the right skills (or they bring status). You can use money to buy status and lifestyle.

    4. Aaron I was referring in the context of women. What should I guy in his 30s do to massively improve with women?

      So yes I think it boils down to “Status and lifestyle“ as Alek says.

    5. If Alek ever wrote a book about Status and Wealth Building (without losing your long term freedom. Many business owners actually end up having even less freedom than the typical employee,which defeats the point of trying to escape the 9-5),you can definitely be sure I’ll buy it ASAP.

      I’m sure that would be very daunting for him though,and would take time to ensure quality. I think what would be useful at this immediate point in time is ask for book recommendations from him in regards to those topics. (Not seduction specifically because Aaron’s already covered that)

      is “How to Win Friends & Influence People” by Dale Carnegie for building sociability still a recommended read for example? or are there better resources these days?

    6. I read the book you mentioned many years ago, and found it to be hopelessly naive. The big takeaways are: remember people’s names, be nice, and do them favors so that they will reciprocate them. It completely ignores the problem of how to deal with antagonistic people, apart from this fairy-tale nonsense about being nice so that others will be nice to you in return. I recall reading that Carnegie supposedly wanted to write a chapter on how to deal with difficult people, but his publisher wanted to avoid including anything negative. I do not think that a single chapter would have done this topic justice, though.

    7. location, spare time

      I forgot to add these but they are probably even bigger factors than status and money.

      Sometimes just changing location can 3x how much you get laid. I have a friend whom I have been coaching about building lifestyle and status… and we figured out that by just partying over the weekends in a different city he bang way more often and way hotter girls.

      Same with spare time. If spend some time to set up things financially and productivity wise, you can reach a point where you’re financially (and productivity wise) set up well enough to go out way more and have the time it actually takes to meet lots people and build a lifestyle.

    8. If Alek ever wrote a book about Status and Wealth Building (without losing your long term freedom. Many business owners actually end up having even less freedom than the typical employee,which defeats the point of trying to escape the 9-5),you can definitely be sure I’ll buy it ASAP.

      I’m sure that would be very daunting for him though,and would take time to ensure quality. I think what would be useful at this immediate point in time is ask for book recommendations from him in regards to those topics.

      Extremely unlikely, precisely because of what you said. I only do things if I can do them well. In order to write a book like that, I’d have to first coach 100s of guys to recognize the patterns, in order to generalize in the way necessary in a book.

      I’ve only coached 2 friends, and I definitely plan on not doing any coaching ever. I have several businesses, lifestyle and status building projects etc. Like I’d have to give up status, money and pussy to do it.

      Aaron has already coached a ton of guys on this stuff. His coaching isn’t just about what’s in the books. He’s already shared he helps guys come up with strategies and plans for this kind of stuff as well, lifestyle, logistics etc.

      Yes, I understand a book would be convenient. But it doesn’t exist, and won’t exist, so just budget in some consultations with Aaron.

  2. Just something I thought about on the topic of lifting…

    You guys think that once you’ve actually reached the point where you’re reasonably content with your physique and/or have reached the point where there is serious diminishing returns to muscle gain (whichever comes first),it makes sense to switch your focus on maintaining that physique or find a way to continue making hypertrophy gains while minimizing having to increase the weight (i.e. focus more on reps and volume rather than more intensity/weight)?

    Reason being is that,the heavier you lift,the greater risk of injury (particularly on free weights). I’ve got a friend,6ft 200lbs with blurred abs,that pretty much quit progressing on his Squats and Deadlifts once he hit 3 plates for reps (315lbs for those who don’t get the lingo). I used to think he’s wasting his potential,but now looking back on it,he might actually be making the smarter choice. Nobody outside of the gym brahs are going to care how much weight you lift in the gym. Its really your physique that gets the attention outside of there.

    He’s injured himself and his shoulders before getting to a 240lb Bench Press. Nowadays he lifts around the 200lb mark for reps. That might have played a factor into his decision.

    1. Unless you’re going to make some kind of career out of your physique or just happen to really love this shit and have plenty of spare time, then I would just maintain an above average-looking body. You can always go through phases where you decide to get back at it. The problem (for me) with always pushing harder and harder for them gainz is that it is really taxing on the mind and body. I’ve got other stuff to do besides tearing down and recovering constantly. Even if that’s just hanging out with some friends and family and not having to worry about getting enough macros to recover from a brutal squat session.

      There is this one guy who’s video I watched on youtube (Joe Delaney, I think), and it really kind of emphasized how realistic the bro lift lifestyle really is. It was a day in the life style video with no glamor or bullshit in it. The guy has the convenience of a home gym as well, but basically his life just revolves around sleeping, lounging around the house, making youtube content, eating/cooking/shopping, and lifting. His girlfriend just is kind of there while he’s going about his business, so I imagine he bangs her out here and there in between all that boring stuff. It’s not like a non-stop Jersey Shore party where roid bros are constantly lifting, drinking and banging out copious amounts of club sluts. It’s boring at best and grueling at worst.

    2. I’m pretty much living that kind of life right now. (I don’t have a home gym,but the gym nearest is a 15 minute walk from where I am. so,almost the same experience)

      Funny thing is that when COVID first hit is when I began all this,which was perhaps the perfect time to do so because outside opportunities were going to be nonexistent anyway at that point in time. (Also really ironic as this is the period folks really started packing on the pounds while here I am doing the opposite,lol) I just wasn’t wasn’t going to the gym during those days. I coulda finished my weight loss journey in that time period,but family drama had to get mixed up in all this. Regained all the weight,and had to work more time losing it again. Will definitely take measures to make sure that never happens again.

      Hopefully I at least get to a flat 200lbs,if not the ideal 180-190lbs. The journey to nip this lifelong issue in the bud is absolutely worth it,but I DEFINITELY don’t want to live this way (The full-time gymbro life,I mean) for the rest of my life.

      You’re right. its boring at best and grueling at worst. (I know that latter period so well now,lol) Its such a relief that the amount of work you have to do to maintain is much,much less than the amount of work you have to do to simply maintain. I suspect that once I’m at the point where I’m just maintaining muscle,that’ll probably just be 2 times a week of weightroom for 30-45 mins. Leaves plenty of time and mental energy for new pursuits.

    3. I was waiting for the right opportunity to post this video I wanted to share with you guys, very nice video.

      Basically it’s this very popular exercise-scientist (slash) roided up bodybuilder who just released a video where he explains how minmaxing the gym in order to get girls is fucking stupid.

      Actually, it’s why taking steroids to get laid is stupid, but most of the logic applies to minmaxing natural bodybuilding as well. Like going beyond those first 80% of possible gains.

      And then he goes into “7 things that make way more sense than minmaxing the gym”. It’s almost like he’s been reading our comments here lol. Basically how it’s better to do 7 things that increase your SMV instead of minmaxing one thing. Even though this one thing happens to be the one he minmaxxed.

      One of the 7 things is “Build up status in a niche, become a sort of a mini-celeb in a small-pond, be the highest status guy, or most skilled guy in a niche”.

      Video Title: The Worst Reason To Do Steroids
      Channel: Renaissance Periodization

    4. Renaissance Periodization is a gem. One of the best sources of info in this particular field.

      Alek,there was a time I considered taking roids at some point in the future (not during the fat loss phase of course. that’d be a silly time to do it),but not because I intend to use it long term or become a freak,but in order to permanently get above the natural limit.

      I believe you’ve researched this stuff much more extensively than I’ve read on it so you’re probably already aware,but if you do things right and temporarily take roids just long enough to get beyond your natural limit,when you decide to come off of it properly,you will forever be above (I’m not sure by how much,probably only slightly) your pre-steroid natty limit. You’re not going to be anywhere near as jacked as you will be while on the stuff of course,but the exposure to the stuff alters your cells permanently. Its kinda related to the Muscle Memory phenomenon.

      What made me reconsider this thought,you might ask? I’ve had a conversation with an experienced roider,and they told me there is that very real risk of permanently decreasing your natural T production,even if you do everything correctly. Lots of people end up on TRT for life just after a brief dive into roids. I don’t think that alone is worth the risk,although there are plenty of other potential downsides.

    5. Is it even true that you can permanently stay above your limit after roiding? I would assume that aged roiders like Schwarzenegger and Stallone still juice themselves, at least in the form of HGH. I recall one roider from my old gym, a short dude who really packed on the muscles. At some point, he was gone for a couple of months, I think it was because he was frantically looking for a job. When he came back, I did not recognize him at first as he looked like a twink. He had been roiding for years.

    6. Maou. Yes ive considered the same hack.

      However I haven’t heard of this permanently lowered t from just a short stint.

      I’ll be honest, it sounds like folklore.

    7. Its possible he’s overstating the risk. At the very least,Renaissance Periodization made a guide to safely dip one’s toe if they’re really serious about this:

      I don’t want to sound as if I’m encouraging anybody here though. Should go without saying,but do your extra homework and have at least 2-3 years of serious and consistent gym experience before even considering starting this. If I do end up trying this,it won’t be for a very long time.

    8. Is it even true that you can permanently stay above your limit after roiding? I

      You can increase your natural limit. The reason most roiders aren’t bigger than a typical natural after they stop roiding is because they’re lazy fucks. It’s not because they can’t be.

      To put it in other terms. Most roiders just coast on the steroids and train like shit, and when they stop taking, not only do they deflate like a baloon, but they are smaller than natural of equal training years. However, if they trained as hard as life-time natural champion, they could get bigger than him.

      This is why pros (who both take loads of steroids, and work superhard), when they retire and come off the drugs, they’re bigger than lifetime naturals.

    9. This is why in true natural bodybuilding federations you are banned if it is found out you took steroids ever in your life. Even if it was 5-10-15 years ago. Steroids can change your natural limit.

    1. This video is unbelievably cringe-worthy. Do you recall the PUA in the video? This is Vince Kelvin, a loser I made fun of quite relentlessly over a decade ago. I must have really gotten to him because he managed to get my mobile phone number — we have two or three mutual acquaintances — and left me a nasty voice mail, something about “raping my sister”. He sounded quite drunk. Back then he did not go by the nick name “The Cock” (lol). His bootcamp clients are even worse. I was not sure whether I should laugh or cry when looking at this footage. It really is pathetic.

    2. Actually, I can’t say that I remember that guy in particular, but he seems extremely antisocial so I’m not surprised he did that to you. That one client in particular that kept doing the falsetto…man. Vince looks like he just escaped from a psyche unit. Btw, I’m sure you noticed that the interviewer guy height mogged everyone there. He also seemed legitimately freaked out by some of their behaviors and the things they were saying, such as when the brown cowboy guy went in for a kiss with that fat black girl. These guys would fuck anything just for some validation.

    3. The interviewer seemed alienated by this crowd. I also noted the height difference. Vince Kelvin being a manlet makes him come across even more bizarre than he otherwise would. Anybody not knowing that he was a “PUA” would assume that he has a serious mental disorder.

    4. I can’t imagine how awful it would be to make your living this way also. It seems like the modus operandi is to troll the streets of places such as Vegas and hopefully come across a desperate enough drunk chick that she lets you make out with her. Vince looks pretty gross, and coupled with his short height I seriously can’t imagine he’s ever had much of anything decent compared to the ridiculous numbers game he’s probably played.

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