When you look back at PUA theories of yore, you’ll get the impression that their creators were unable to deal with uncertainty. In order to achieve a certain outcome, they invented a bazillion of steps, like “overcoming last-minute resistance”, which is pretty much a bogus idea to begin with. For some, like Mystery, getting a girlfriend was apparently the holy grail. I can’t be arsed to look it up right now, but he claimed that you would need to master his version of highly formulaic pickup before you could even consider attempting to have a relationship.Probably there was another 20-volume DVD series on how to keep a girlfriend in Mystery that was just waiting to get out.
Sadly, the fundamental problem with formulaic approaches is that they do not appreciate the chaotic nature of dating and mating. By this I mean that we are dealing with a very complex situation with far too many variables. For the geeks among my readers: PUAs think meeting women is a finite state machine where you move from A to B to, eventually, Sex. There is only a limited number of valid actions to get from one state to the next, and if you don’t manage to progress, you simply made a mistake. Of course, every woman is yours for the taking. But, bro, you gotta learn the steps! The reality, though, is that we’re not dealing with a finite state machine but with a large-scale optimization problem with a genuinely infinite input space. There is so much crap that could go wrong (and right) that it is impossible to take every action and reaction into account. Instead, the best you can do is using heuristics, which is precisely what I have been preaching for over a decade now (buy Minimal Game if you haven’t bought it yet).
The problem with the entire span of the interaction, from hello to sex to relationship to growing old together — or breaking up and starting at square one again — is that you have no control over the woman you are interacting with. There are no clear rules either, and if she’s a slut, or simply has poor impulse control, she can easily end up in a situation in which she will cheat on you without her having planned it in advance. This is a prime reason why every girl who insists on “having a girl’s night out” is fundamentally untrustworthy as they are putting themselves in a situation in which things can happen that are out of their control. All it takes is getting a bit tipsy, grinding against some dudes crotch and, oops, she feels his boner, gets a bit horny, gets a bit hornier, until her emotions take over and she ends up fucking a guy even though she may only subconsciously have wanted to. This does not mean that she didn’t “love” her boyfriend as she was on the way to the club, though.
The bigger picture is that women normally do not actively pursue guys. Instead, they put themselves in positions where “something” could happen. In the end, it’s always the guy who is to blame. She screwed another dude, her boyfriend broke up with her afterwards, and of course in her mind nothing was her fault. Thus, a very good heuristic for picking a woman for a relationship is to choose one who does not want to constantly “meet new people” or “have fun with her friends”. Yes, this is coming from a guy who has fucked a lot of women who had a boyfriend, fiance, or husband. I couldn’t have fucked them had they not put themself in a situation where they could meet guys they find attractive and who may create an opportunity for them to act out their sexual desire.
Are there really girls out there who say they don’t like “meeting new people” or “go out with their friends”? Where would you find those girls for a relationship that would be rewarding?
Those statements are code for “I like to party!”. Also, there are women who are not compulsive socializers.
Alvin,
I’ve met several of these woman recently. They don’t go to typical night time venues. Lots love going to try new food or going to a wine bar with a single friend – after work perhaps or the early evening. More “tete a tete”. Girls who go the gym fall in that category as well. Obviously all the girls that go where i said are not like that but they definitely skew that way.
Most decent women don’t like partying/clubbing as a regular activity. Most women socialize in different more low-key ways. After work parties with colleagues from work, yoga & gym classes, wine-tasting events, movie-festivals, dance classes, language courses, free promotional events of any kind… etc etc…
Count the number of clubs in your city, multiply by average number of girls… The number you get will be something like, I dunno 0.01% of the female population in your city (and I’m talking prime sexual age population).
In a 2million city…. If there are 20 clubs with 200 chicks each… That’s just 4000 chicks that went out clubbing. From 400,000 prime-age chicks. That’s 1% then. So I exaggerated with the 0.01%… But still 99% are not out in the clubs.
@Alek, Are you seriously suggesting that there are 400,000 beautiful women who would turn you on even the slightest or more in a city of 2 Million?
They maybe in prime age but most of the women are not cute in most cities. I always thought that there are a disproportionate amounts of women with health club produced figures in clubs than say your local grocery even though they are in the same city.
I didn’t say 400,000 beatiful girls. I said 400k girls who are of prime age 🙂 That includes everyone from ones to tens. Meaning females who aren’t too young to go out, or too old to go out.
If you had enough interactions with women you quickly realize certain red flags – Aaron named a few – and, if you’re not braindead you start to select your partners on these. Which led me to the startling realization that the vast majority of women is unfit for long term commitment because of said red flags. Another startling realization I had after a few *err* interactions with women was that you can buy the majority of women. And no, I don’t mean prostitutes. I mean run-of-the-mill women which would slap you if you ever suggested something like that. That’s another red flag btw. I share a third realization: If she has the hots for you and you’re well enough in bed you pretty much can do anything you want to her. And I mean: Anything. And if you can’t: She doesn’t have the hots for you.
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I wanted to put this up here where it fits, but couldn’t find a place, therefore I’ll put it here: You can quickly summarize the failure of PUA by their way of looking at things. PUA: You have to be this good to get women. Everyone else: Don’t suck this hard to get women. PUAs look up from the bottom. That should tell you enough about them.
Could you please elaborate on your statement that the majority of women can be bought?
“Could you please elaborate on your statement that the majority of women can be bought?”
Isn’t that what the whole manosphere (and at times manuresphere) thing is about? The startling realization that you fall into two categories with women: a) attractive b) not attractive. And that the vast majority of men fall into b) with women? Which you can mediate by providing but the value of providing has fallen to an all time abyssimal low. Don’t you see it if about 2/3 of women answer questions like “It’s important that my partner earns a lot of money.” positively. Doesn’t that make you think?
And personally I experienced the following. After a chick has seen my appartment/lifestyle she’s pushing for commitment. Hard. Quite strange to see what women can dream up even if you only fucked her a couple of times. Didn’t you encounter chicks which had a razor sharp idea what the man (=you) has to bring to the table money-wise? As in: presents you a definite list of what she wants the man (=you) to pay for. Even deluded enough to name a sum? Her: “He has to earn at least that much, that he can give me 2000 Euros a month.” Me: “Why?” Her: “Because I need 2000 Euros a month.” Well, who f****** doesn’t`?
Sorry, if I sound ranting, but it seems you hit quite a nerve there. And no, I’m not unattractive. I have too much uncommited sex for that and I’m not projecting my wealth enough. But it seems to me as a man you’re always a tool for women. And the only difference is to what degree you are a walking wallet. And quite frankly I find this disgusting.
Thanks for this great comment! Your statement read as if it was of a more explicit transactional nature, which is why I was curious to hear more about your experiences.
I’ve met women who asked me bluntly how much I made, what car I drove, and how much money I got in the bank. Granted, those were extremely rare exceptions, but if you meet a lot of women, you’ll encounter some pretty wacky ones. It’s not at all uncommon, though, that women fish for that kind of information in a conversation.
Aaron,
Have you had the same observation, that when you go out because you’re horny as hell and REALLY want to get laid, you don’t? But if you don’t look for it, “crap goes right”.
First I thought that I looked needy, when I wanted to get laid at any price and I certainly did in the early days, but I have gotten much better at accepting the randomness of meeting people and girls. And still, it kind of prevails.
Heck I’ve gotten more laid with comfy sneakers and large clothes accidentally ending up in a social place, than in a nice sharp outfit on a pre-planned night out.
I don’t want to get Eckhart-Tolle-Style here, but it’s a lot like that in life – when you stop looking for something, it comes along your way. It reminds me of trading FX where the environment is also random to a large degree, but surely when I look back on a bad string of trades and say, “Ok, no trades for today”, it happens soooo often that some ridiculous extended move shows up, I just have to counter-trade it, and more often than not it works.
And my best lays have been the ultra-obvious ones, happening where I had not even planned to go out. One still has to be bold as fuck, but hey whenever I didn’t expect it, the opportunity just showed up in a super obvious way.
Is it just because one is relaxed? Any thoughts on this?
Sure, if you’re desperately trying to get laid, you’ll look desperate, which turns women off.
With that in mind, did you put on a particular mindset so that you could experience a Sleazy Story?
(I remember you mentioning that you really liked the music in the places you went to, so maybe that was something to fucus on in the first place)?
Hi Neutralrandomthoughts, I know what you mean and it’s not what Aaron says in his reply. It’s more the difference between consciousness and subconsciousness, about a certain smooth state of mind.
After the fact you realize what has just happen but you can’t reproduce it consciously, you can just stay open and observe what’s happening in real time, then join the action which is difficult because you’re like “is this really happening”?
It’s been happening to me over and over and I just couldn’t figure it out because figuring it out is a conscious act. What really put me on the right path was the book “Letting go” by David R Hawkins.
All that made me realize that the subconscious world is the real world and the conscious one related to words and thoughts is just “Matrix”
Thx berzerk!
I also learned recently that the subconcious is incredibly powerful and it is the reason why we are what we are and do what we do.
So, do you actually get to influence it, or is it all about accepting that there is no control?
you actually can release the negative emotions and everything else happens out of your control, but then good things happen.
you can also stifle your negative emotions and then everybody around you will want to help you release them, so when you’re angry, people around you will make you more angry. When you’re fearful people will want to scare you more etc….
Great post, Aaron. My impression that these ‘PUAs’ and their fanboys are merely pussy-beggars who barely get ass only got confirmed recently. One of my best friends who is a colleague of mine, well, his little brother recently joined the company. And he is very, very deeply into all this PUA stuff and has one figure that he idolizes completely. Not only can he not shut up about it, he embarasses my friend as well as himself in front of the entire team. The funny thing is he knows all the theory and analyzes the shit out of each situation out there, but he gets the opposite result of what he wants, a lot of people in the company, especially our female coworkers, despise him because he makes them feel so awkward and uncomfortable. I told him that it’s much better to drop all this nonsense and stop living in a fantasy world, just take it easy, and let things happen naturally. This was all mainly inspired by your writings mr sleaz. I also told him he should get off his ass and improve himself in areas in which he lacks. Sadly, there’s hardly getting through him. The PUA scene got a lot worse over the years and i almost fel bad for all the naive kids that fall for it.
Honestly I don’t think that sexual liberation did anything good to mankind. It’s like getting back to stone age. I’m an atheist but looks like I have to rely on church to get a wife for me :D. Fun aside, where can you find those kind of women?
First part of this post reminds me of a quote from none other than Mike Tyson : “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”.
This plan-heavy mindset is probably exacerbated in PUA circles by the followers themselves as clueless guys are probably actually rather bookish/nerdy and like linear, logical/a priori models that “make sense” intuitively but, of course, are hopeless in practise and help them very little.
It’s much more useful to think of the system as inherently chaotic and unpredictable, as you say not just because it’s true, but because constant failure from adhering to linear thinking will usually leave you frustrated when things don’t go your way.
If you are dumb enough to take Mystery’s advice on getting girls, you are probably gullible enough to think he could also help you sustain a relationship. If this applies, I have an amazing investment opportunity to share with you!
PUA ideas seem to stick around in a lot of the blogosphere, and part of the appeal is similar to that of religious belief, in that they give you a sense of control over a highly random environment. Another part of the appeal is the convenient idea that your “inner game” can overcome major structural issues like being an unattractive loser.
The level of rationalization required for a woman to expect 2,000 euros a month to be your girlfriend, but not view herself as a hooker is pretty awe-inspiring.
For clarification I didn’t end up with her, that was just a talk I had. What boggled my mind at that moment was she really calculated it out. She thought: I Need 500 for clothes, 500 for horseback riding, 250 for this, 250 for that etc. But not only that, she had the nerves to tell me this. Sure maybe that was the usual “he has to have a 6 figure income” and if the right one comes along it’s okey if he’s a bartender and makes 30.000, but still…
And to put some further context on it, I live in Germany. Taxes and social security take a huge chunk – roughly 50 % – out of your income. So, to give her 2000 Euros a month a man needs to earn 4000. But since he has to earn his own upkeep also he actually ends up with having to earn even more. So that would be an income of 6000 Euros, if he keeps his upkeep to the bare minimum. That’s not very common in Germany. Definetly not in the age bracket she was/is in.
6000 EUR/mo. is a very solid salary in Germany. What boggles my mind is that people (often women) don’t seem to have much of a clue about income distribution and regular salaries. They see a few starlets on TV and somehow conclude that anybody with a proper job is drowning in cash. They also often don’t realize that a lot of people with seemingly flashy lifestyles are 30k millionaires simply live paycheck to paycheck. Oh, and of course everybody who does anything in finance of course pulls down at least 200k a year.
Note that in your calculation, the guy would spend less on himself than on his live-in hooker.
What are some subliminal signs and clues that women want to be around you or are placing themselves so that can end up “doing something” when it’s sometimes not so obvious?
Like for example, I have had instances where I would be in a cafeteria or lunch room of some sort, I would spot a very beautiful or attractive girl and I have had instances where said girls would intentionally sit at a table near me and in very close proximity, from my impression, or make very low key eye contact with me after I looked at them but for not for prolonged long periods of time, and then sometimes touch and play around with their hair.
However, just recently this one girl that did the above that I was really into and still am, ended up losing interest in me and I ended up with a fake phone number from her. I couldn’t figure what I did wrong exactly, but I figure I might have creeped her out by trying to make too much eye contact with her. I ended up talking to her and she seemed very friendly and nice to me and didn’t seem to have a bad impression of me at all, but ended up giving me a fake phone number and then very subliminally dropping the hint that she had a boyfriend but not directly.
So why did this beautiful girl show all this interest in me and show all sorts of body language signs of attraction towards me? Or was it all fake and she was a insecure bitch and wanted to play with me and feel superior and enjoy the attention?
You need to talk to more women if you are obsessing over one interaction that didn’t go anywhere, and for which one could find a bajillion of reasons.
Is there anyway to salvage this situation? I really really like this girl and really want her and she has been doing stuff that I need some help with recently….
“Is there anyway to salvage this situation? I really really like this girl and really want her and she has been doing stuff that I need some help with recently….”
No. Stop obssessing with that. I know your situation, been there: you obssess with one girl that (according to your desperate self) it could be into you because you think that she’s giving you “hints and signals” (you catch her staring at you and then she looks away, etc.), but you never dare to approach her until it’s too late, she loses interest and forgets about you… of course, if she ever liked you on first place. But hey! You enjoyed the mental masturbation, to dwell in the illusion that she maybe, MAYBE liked you. Yeah, you’re still lonely and miserable, but dreaming is free, huh?
’bout this girl: just treat her like any other human being, stop pedestalizing her, stop thinking that she’s “oh so special” “oh so unique”. Meet more people. No, not more girls, MORE PEOPLE.
I know you’re clueless about girls, me too being honestly. Yet, Alek Novy, in his groundbreaking micro-essay about the “move levels”, nailed it: in order to start to sharpen your teeth and get calibrated, you MUST approach those girls that make you hard (or at least you find interesting) and are somewhat nice with you. We still have a long way, but try to not to worry about it. I’m trying too.