I recently watched part of the documentary The Pickup Game (2019). Obviously, it was made with the intention of depicting the PUA community in a bad light, and in that regard, this documentary surely was a success. Some of the smarter people, however, used their screen time in order to promote themselves and improve their image. Paul Janka did a very good job distancing himself from the PUA scene, but this was his angle also in the past, i.e. he played up the “educated Harvard graduate” angle, even though he was just as much after one-night stands as any other guy. Paul Janka makes the obviously true statement that guys who focus too much on pickup and do not manage to move on may end up in a bad spot. In this regard, he mentions Ross Jeffries, and after a cut, you get to learn about the situation of that guy who was, back then, in his mid-50s.
Ross Jeffries is arguably the proto-scammer in the PUA cottage industry. His approach was downright bizarre. As a reminder, he promoted “speed seduction”, and his “game” was based on using language to manipulate women. Given how unattractive Ross Jeffries was as a young guy, this was probably the only plausible angle he could use to promote his books and seminars. It is quite astounding how much bullshit he peddled: Talk about a “new direction” and a woman will hear “nude erection” and because she is standing next to you, she associates her feeling horny with you and before you know it, she is riding your dick! Other examples were based on using your voice in a particular way, in an attempt to arouse her. Clearly, you cannot say that Ross Jeffries did not have a vivid imagination. If women do not find you physically attractive, you can do all kinds of tricks with your voice, and it will not work, just as you can, as David DeAngelo recommended, study comedy in order to make women laugh. This will also not go anywhere because women giggle when a hot guy talks to them, regardless of what he says, and do not care very much about the great sense of humor of some manlet. On a side note, Ross Jeffries and David DeAngelo are both Jewish, but I do not know if this has anything to do with anything. Probably not.
Ross Jeffries was not able to capitalize on his pioneering work. When the PUA industry really exploded, he was already too old, in addition to his teaching being plain weird. Thus, people were familiar with his name but they did not take him seriously. The lanky Mystery, for instance, had his flashy appearance going for him, which was copied by basically anybody else at that time. However, “peacocking” does not really work so well if you are a middle-aged guy with unattractive facial features and excessive body fat.
Ross Jeffries chased after women with his speed seduction method. Now, in the twilight years of his life, he lives in a studio apartment, the kind that does not even have an entryway. As you can see in the documentary, and the first image in this post, you open the door to the apartment and immediately step into the living room. I recall that back in the late 2000s or early 2010s people I knew in the “community” sometimes, albeit rarely, brought up Ross Jeffries as a bad example. Nobody wanted to be like him or end up like him. In fact, even then people were talking about him living in a “shitty studio apartment” and struggling financially. Perhaps the apartment he lived in back then is the one we see in that documentary.
I do not think that Ross Jeffries was a particularly successful “PUA”. He just does not come across as someone who is attractive to women. Being unattractive perhaps worked as a marketing gimmick in the PUA industry, if you have a gullible audience, but in real life, being a male 4/10 does not mean that you can simply speak of all the “new directions” you are pursuing all the time and have women line up outside of your apartment. His starting position was not a particularly good one.
Ross Jeffries could likely have achieved a lot more in his life by following a regular career path. Heck, this guy is part of the boomer generation! By just working a regular job, he would now be in a great position, with a paid off house, and even a spouse and a bunch of kids if he had wanted to. He could be the guy who tells today’s college students that they are lazy and that he had it really tough in his time. Yet, he wasted his 20s on “speed seduction” and now he shows us that you can be a boomer, yet still be in a bad spot financially. That is quite an achievement. On a related note, in the 2010s, in contrast, economic opportunities were a lot harder to come by so, arguably, any guy spending a bit too much time on chasing tail, even if they did not want to become PUA gurus themselves, did not really lose a lot. I recall that in 2008/09 it was extremely difficult to get a job. Many who could afford to, took a gap year or got another degree to bridge the time. Others worked dead-end part-time jobs to somehow make ends meet. In the 1970s, you could live life on easy street.
Being in your 20s or perhaps even your early 30s, and not being particularly successful, is not a big problem. Nowadays, plenty of guys in their 30s did not get their career off the ground, so if you do not do so well, you do not necessarily stand out negatively anyway. Yet, you probably do not want to end up being old, decrepit, and living in a studio apartment. There is a point of no return. We can debate when exactly it is, but surely, if you are in your 50s and have not established yourself, you are quite certaintly screwed. In theory, you could still start over, but people would legitimately ask why you did not manage to make anything out of yourself in the half a century you have been alive.
Your chances of having sex with random women in your 50s are, needless to say, slim to none. Ross Jeffries, in his mid-50s, may at best have gotten lucky with some washed-up divorcee in her 50s. I do not know how you see it but if your choice is between banging a random 50-year-old and not having sex at all, the latter seems like a pretty tempting option. Surely, you do not want to be in your mid-50s, fantasizing about women, and lamenting your lack of money, like Ross Jeffries does in that documentary. In particular as a single guy, you should find it relatively easy to build up a large-enough nest egg to support yourself. With a family and a couple of kids, the situation obviously drastically changes, but that is another topic.
Ross Jeffries is a in a really bad spot, if we take the documentary at face value. He looks like a man who has given up on life. Obviously, he is not stupid. Surely, there were career paths open to him where he could have done really well. Sales could have been a decent career path, preferably a business-to-business role because people do not necessarily expect you to have good looks as a guy. In 1970s Boomerville, though, he could probably have pursued a large number of careers quite easily. Yet, he wanted to teach the world about “speed seduction”. The most tragic part about it is that he most likely did not even live the life of a player. It is one thing to YOLO, party hard, and bang one hot slut after another, but quite another if you are creeping people out and foster delusions about being the founder of the so-called seduction community. Arguably, Ross Jeffries’ major contribution was inspiring other men who had little to no success with women to also try their luck at starting their own business. After all, if Ross Jeffries did not get laid, yet manage to make money teaching men on how to get women, others surely will be able to replicate this. They did, for a good decade, and then the entire house of cards came crushing own. Ross Jeffries’ life is therefore also a good metaphor for the state of the PUA industry.
I will come clean and admit I read the Neil Strauss book, which touched on Ross Jeffries. Did any of the people in that book get consistent good ass? Or was everyone just full of shit
They were all pretty much bullshitters. I also read that book, out of curiosity, but that was about two decades ago. Is Gunwitch mentioned as a minor character? If so, that is one guy who is credible.
Mystery did have success with strippers and “ hired guns” as he called them by the time that book was written. Due to him being 6.5” tall . decent looking and his Magician persona.
Almost all of the others that followed were massive frauds and scammers just riding the gravy train.
Brent smith and Zan Perrion also got good ass but again due to them being very good looking guys mainly. Their ‘methods’ can’t really be taught as such as it’s based on their very good looks. Zan Ps “courses” in particular are total useless romantic drivel.
@Sleazy- interesting you mention Gunwitch . I reviewed a few of his courses and it seemed similar to your MG. Ie be masculine, sexual and escalate. “ make the Ho say no” was his motto.
Was he one of your early mentors ?
I skimmed a few of his writings but I never had any personal interactions with him. Also, he seems to move in a world I have no connection with. He wrote about dealing with criminals and if I recall correctly, he even went to jail for either brandishing a gun in front of someone in an intimidating manner or shooting them.
I also once skimmed a pirated pdf scan of that book, just to get an impression of it.
I found it ludicrous – and absolutely disgusting and repulsive, and for ONE particular aspect. And that is Mystery and (((Neil Strauss))) descending for their first joint “field trip” upon the women of post-NATO-bombed Serbia, and its capital Belgrade in particular. Being Serbian myself, merely the entire symbolic quality of this endeavour makes me vomit already. Why not fly to 2000s Berlin and its techno subculture instead and whore around there? That would have been a much more effective location for their PUA stunts, also as far as publicity is concerned. But no: They just *had* to choose a Eastern European country that had just been assaulted and attempted to get broken physically and spiritually by an assault of overwhelming outside forces – and just pee, vomit and shit on it as well.
On a very personal level, this is a repellant act they never atoned for. Instead they turned it into the springboard for (((his))) book to promote Mystery’s Method into the mainstream.
Btw. does anybody know what Mr Erik von Markovik is doing with his life now? For what it’s worth, years ago I saw photos of him reluctantly pushing a baby-carriage on the streets of shitty Hollywood/CA.
Almost all PUAs of yore have vanished off the face of the earth or reemerged as general self-help hucksters. Mystery still has a website online. If you so desire, you can seemingly still book a bootcamp with this guru of gurus.
Speaking of Mystery, I just recalled that he once made a post in which he argued that we should refer to pick up as “le pick up” as it would make it sound more sophisticated. Amusingly, and surely not related to the utterly tone-deaf Mystery, this expression later turned into a meme to mock the alleged sophistication of supposed intellectuals. Its current usage is “le hecking X”, e.g. “trust le hecking science!” Related is the well-regarded muh-meme.
Gunwitch shot a woman in the face was the story. as I remember. Gunwitch used to be a co host of ‘Twenty Six’ Barry Kirkeys radio show. Which actually was extremely funny with the scene bashing and outing of the fraudsters. He did a good job . You used to contribute to his website PUAHate etc if I recall. I missed all that it got closed down by the time I’d got wind of it.
Just watched the documentary myself. Even scammer extraordinaire “Justin Wayne” gets featured in it! Sleaze, I remember you stuck it to him big time some years ago.
And “Mystery”, he has exactly that empty, drained expression in his face I so often recognize with such misdirected people. And he even still paints his fingernails black! Ludicrous.
I liked The Game it kinda was my Bible for a few years. Neil Strauss is a decent writer. And it’s well told his step by step “Evolution”.
Yeah Mystery is really washed up now.
I’m glad you guys checked out the Doco I thought it was great.
Some more facts about Ross Jeffries ( not his real name btw it’s Paul Ross or something)
Jeffries was a trained hypnotist before becoming a pickup Guru.
His Speed Seduction courses are all based on hypnotic languaging ‘patterns’and NLP and choc full of “embedded commands” and “open loops” as they say in NLP. I’ve studied a lot of his stuff,
Basically in Jeffries courses he is hypnotising the listener/ viewer into following him.
Others took this “Tech” and ran with it especially RSD – who really amped it up using “paradoxes” of speech and “ mind bending language” and to keep their students confused and going in circles and buying more courses for answers. These are all hypnosis principles that work if a person is open/ suggestible enough to follow.
I think I remember Alek saying he went down that rabbit hole also as an RSD fan.
I studied Jeffries courses before RSD so I could see them all using it, but the students would have been unaware.
It really is pretty evil manipulation methods,
All of RSDs coaches were trained in conversational hypnosis by a famous hypnotist named Igor Ledechowski. He is a top guy in Hyno-land.
Make what you will of all of that!
This plonker;
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/igorledochowski
One of the older PUAs of interest to me was BradP. sleazy did a debunk of him and his bullshit marketing years ago. But I did a bit of research of that guy ( Casey Mahoney) and his backstory was actually all true and general ideas on club game, pickup and his insights on ‘Social Value’ were pretty solid. As he lays out in his original ‘ Underground Dating Seminar’ that is. Unfortunately he went full-blown scammer later with his business and marketing.
And he is also a very tall guy, albeit with a prominent nose.
He is currently working as a counsellor in addiction recovery, ( another scammy racket of sorts) after getting clean and sober, so there’s another clear result and downside of too much pickup, the problem of drink drug and sex addiction. Neil Strauss ended up the same way as laid out in his follow up book to The Game named The Truth. Where he has a mock funeral for his Style persona (lol).
I do think Strauss got a lot of ass btw but exaggerated the quality and later only relative to his fame and money.
James, hypnosis does not really work. If it did, shouldn’t a “master hypnotist” like Ross Jeffries lead a much different life?
Yes Aaron I am aware Hypnosis has been debunked. Hypnosis only “ works “ if the student or subject believes it works. Ie are susceptible to influence from the “teacher”.
It’s just a form of influence.
Hypnosis and NLP are still used extensively in sales and marketing for example to influence the subject to buy.
So that’s what Jeffies & Co we’re doing – just influencing / hypnotising their gullible subjects who were open and highly susceptible to their bullshit about seduction and pickup.
Putting subjects into a trance like state and trying to embed commands and bullshit open loops into their brains to make them keep coming back for more “ answers”
But like I said NLP is still used quite a bit in Sales & Mkting. So it must be effective at some measureable quantity.
@Lucretius
Funny thing, i never knew you were Serbian. I was just in Belgrade a couple weeks ago, are you still based there? If i had known i would have suggested to meet up. 🙂
Ps: Belgrade is looking good these days, with all the development going on along the riverfront. My only complaint is the train station and the bus station were left too far apart…
Jeffries got some ass I’m pretty sure of it.
@ Lucretius Carus
Go back and read the chapter re Belgrade, Neil Strauss had an old best friend since high school living there and a trip planned to see him. (Apparently) He brought Mystery along for the trip and they ran a bootcamp there when visiting .2 birds w one stone thing, but y’know that’s the story anyway who really knows.
Re mystery hes still running bootcamps all over Europe with this ginger UK guy Beckster (what’s with him a Ginger wingmen ?)
I read up and at first thought ‘this is sad’ at his age, musing on it yesterday tho, I love travel myself this is like my dream job tbh, swanning around Europe and chatting to hot chicks.
Beats workin for the man to me 🤷🏻♂️
Mystery did have success with strippers and “ hired guns” as he called them by the time that book was written. Due to him being 6.5” tall . decent looking and his Magician persona.
Almost all of the others that followed were massive frauds and scammers just riding the gravy train.
Brent smith and Zan Perrion also got good ass but again due to them being very good looking guys mainly. Their ‘methods’ can’t really be taught as such as it’s based on their very good looks. Zan Ps “courses” in particular are total useless romantic drivel.
My feeling has always been that there must exist somewhere, some kind of secret curse that is bound to befall each and everybody who makes chasing tail or sportsfucking around indiscriminately one of his/her main occupations in life. Whether it be PUAs of yesteryear, porn “stars”, manwhores or long-time prostitutes or your regular sluts, never have I seen a man or a woman not appear drenched out of their life force and wallowing over those lost years of their life, or crying over the money that they once made by it but then couldn’t keep.
Essentially it’s not really getting anything worthwile, productive and lasting in return for it.
The best way to go about it seems to be the “Dodge City approach”: To decisively get in there, take the best out of it you possibly can – and then get the fuck out of this absolute creep town.
That this entire field of overamplified sexuality is most often in some manner or form run by people who stem from our favourite (((tribe))) of Golgatha-fame surely doesn’t help either!
Just to add to this, I just remembered this one “classic” porn movie from the 1990s: Hustler magazine’s “The World’s Luckiest Man” from 1997, which I jerked off to when I was a teenager.
In it a stud named “Jon Dough” gets to bang a lineup of 101 “beautiful women”, without any pretense of a plot, just literally 2 hours and 20 seconds of non-stop intercourse action with all my 303 available female holes.
So happy must life have been for “Jon Dough”, that he eventually hanged himself 9 years after this video. (Not unlike many other “adult performers” from past and present times, who committed suicide as well)
@Lucretius-yes there is indeed a curse. It’s due to the act of pickup itself amounting to pretty much nothing. It is meaningless really getting “good at pickup”. Notches on a headboard or belt do not build “self esteem” it’s actually the inverse effect. A few of the PUAs talked about this here and there among the old video courses and I noted this , as I felt the same after getting some “ success” with it.
RSD Jeffy and another Love Systems guy “ Daxx” did seminar talks about it. That “Game” was just really a Thin Veneer of confidence on the outside , but inside they were still anxious and low self esteem as they had an “outward locus of control” ( attention from women). Basically sex addicts. Or moreso validation from women addicts.Kinda surprising that these kind of talks made it on products actually in retrospect,
Another guy John Sinn said it made him suicidal in one of his talks also.
Like Sleazy blogged once it’s Sisyphus(?) pushing the rock up the hill. And again tmrw night etc.
I guess basically a male slut , not a stud. Most would fuck anything.
The difference is a stud /Chad does not have to chase as his high looks are quite rare. Women chase him. A ‘PUA’ always has to chase or manipulate a woman into chasing him via lots of work on his part. So a PUA could rack up a decent amount of lays but it’s a lot of work. He’ll never be a stud/Chad and have it easy.
To me I don’t mind – I accept my lot and know I will have to work or manipulate (or these days pay ) to get laid. But that’s ok by me. 🤷🏻♂️
I find this post utterly depressing and hopeless. Gone a life that could have been good. You reap what you sow.
I don’t know but I think we guys here, as well as countless other nameless readers who lurk this site, need to be grateful for Sleazy and Alek Novy for saving us from these scammers. How many more young lives could have been destroyed by these men?
Again, thank you you two for saving my life. Had I come to know these PUA trickeries before 2018, I would have been completely wrecked.
Well, no offense, but I think Asians (especially from the South and South East) with disposable income, as Sleazy pointed out, have a proclivity to fall for this kind of scammer. I remember the only PUA content I actually consumed was some video “courses” by Vin DiCarlo around 2012, but I torrented those. I’ve never brought myself to pay for porn, much less for this. Then, some time around 2013 I stumbled upon some article debunking the “seduction community” by a very intelligent yet sadly misguided African American guy that went by the name “Ricky Raw”, which led me to the SeductionMyth website and Alek Novy’s comments, and then Aaron (I think Alek might’ve actually commented directly on TheRawness, Ricky’s psychology aficionado blog, maybe he remembers).
What happened to Vin DiCarlo, by the way?
Vin DiCarlo disappeared about a decade ago. The usual story is that guys either get married and/or need to return to their old day job. I do not know what happened to him but these are my guesses.
I think most Vietnamese don’t know what is PUA. I knew it because back in 2018, I was looking for dating advice because I have always received some female attention, but for psychological reason cannot get laid.
I found out a forum where Blackdragon posting. Most of those guys are incredibly weird. I saw Sleazy account on it and read his “Why cold approach is useless”, and I see all I want to see about seduction. Bought a hard copy of “Minimal Game” and read it. That was it.
There were some legit posters from that forum though. A certain British black guy named Cobi seemed getting laid a lot in London. There is also a very humorous guy named Z that also posted there. I really enjoy reading his “field report”. There is an incredibly horrible guy named Tarzan. He approached massively, got laid quite a bit but came out extremely bitter. He daygamed a lot.
I checked out a Vin DiCarlo video course . One look at him was enough to tell me this guy does not pull hot chicks. He was just a sleazy used car salesman type
I’ve posted too much but last post for now – the funniest / scammiest one I’ve come across was “Jason Capital”. Not a bad looking guy but his courses were flat out NLP/ Hypno stuff from the Jeffries playbook. Also his “ infield” video course was the most obvious fake setup infield I have ever seen.
That was the end of it for me watching any” infield” after that. 95% was staged bullshit with paid actresses & girlfriends and RSD were notorious for it also using the same girls in multiple videos.
@CQV it sounds like you are a reasonably good looking guy. It’s my opinion(controversially here) that Mystery Method does work/ help a guy overcome that psychological stuff, it’s a solid enough “ method” . If social circle isn’t appealing/ working for you I would seriously give it a go before going to hookers to lose your’ V-plates’.
You might get a GF or two out of the effort,
Cold approaching IS mostly useless **in the Day-Time** ( unless u are a bona-fide Player such as Scotty F or Sleazy in his younger days)
Cold approaching in bars & clubs has a decent success rate. Alcohol consumption is a requirement though tbh in those environs.
My 2 cents.
Id still debate MM as a solid “ method” for more lays with anyone. But it has serious downsides medium to long term.
And MM is all laid out step by step in Strausses book or Mystery’s first book. 1 book and practice is all that’s required no courses etc. there were thousands of courses spawned from that method.
If anyone wants to debate on that happy to go for it 👍
You probably do not want to open that can of worms. We have debated Mystery Method quite extensively on my old blog as well as the former mASF forum. Arguably, my very negative view of Mystery Method led to me getting significant attention on that forum, later leading to my (free) book Debunking the Seduction Community.
Since my mid-twenty, I have never had any problem with talking to people, I am not awkward or weird at all. I have been working on cultivating my sense of humour and it works out fine.
By psychological issue, I mean I talk myself out of getting laid because I perceive sluts or skin-revealing girls as dangers, so I avoid them. I have had many opportunities but I run away.
Strangely after reading this blog, I become even more conservative and closed-off.
I have never enjoyed alcohol and dislike the state of dizziness after being drunk. That is one of the reasons why I have not had casual sexs.
Oh true. I had that psych barrier/ problem when I was a teenager. Due to a catholic upbringing and a over protective mother who programmed me with “ sex = pregnancy” . So I missed a lot of opportunities handed to me on a plate in my teens. 🤦🏻♂️
Yes Aaron I am well aware.
But there are things to MM you may have overlooked imo. I’m familiar with all your DeBunking of it.
I’ll just say a lot of MM (less the magic tricks) are based on sales psychology. It’s basically a sales model of pickup. And sales psych / sales tricks can work that’s why they are used.
I know the counter-argument of “ it’s just a good looking guy doing more approaching” and “ the game aspect is unecessary”,
But the fact is – I have used the more direct approach for decades until I tried MM. and the direct approach did not work. For me.
I got much better results using MM. did I approach more? Sure, did having a concrete plan worked out beforehand of ABCD enhance things? iMO absolutely. It got me to think ahead and have strategy and consistency for variables / obstacles I hadn’t thought of before I encountered those 2 books (The Game & Mystery Method),
But I agree with your debunking insomuch as it doesn’t work for ugly guys & autistics.
We can agree to disagree but it definitely without a doubt helped me get more lays in about a 3 year period, TBH and full disclosure the quality level was mixed but I did get access to hotter chicks than usual , chicks from other realms to my own, using the princliples.
Again I’m not saying it’s perfect or doesn’t have consequences/ downsides for self esteem etc a guy putting that method into action is basically putting on Mystery’s persona to a large extent . So the downside is it’s a thin veneer of game and confidence,
Racking up lays doesn’t change a guy on the inside really.
And I will also add – your own early progress and development in pickup is analogous to Neil Strauss’ tbh. That’s something to reflect on. That is all for now 🙂
And re RJs courses I’ll add this,
I studied his first basic SS course and another one of his acolytes courses concurrently for about 6-9 months to try learn SS.
They are probably the best courses I have ever come across to teach a guy how to use his voice tonality. For serious. No one else does a course on how to talk seductively. That really does help a lot and an area worth studying.
His ‘patterns’ were just too complicated as he taught them. But they can also be useful as something different to use and I did get some lays using the principles. For real.
I’ve checked out a lot of voice courses over the years. Roger Love “ the voice coach to the stars” first course is also another good one.
Mystery is the most damaging figure. When I first saw him, he was so outlandish that I could not believe someone dressing like that. I have only seen guys dressing very well and got girls looking at him, not that style of weird outfits.
Then his magics thing. I have never seen anyone like that doing so to get girls. It is entertaining but that is it. I remember I was intrigued by it and did not believe it immediately, then I read Sleazy’s piece.
I would say I almost fell for Justin Wayne because he got some footages with hot girls. But Sleazy saved me by denouncing that guy right on that forum. There was another legit member on Sleazy forum there too, Kriminal, who made fun of him. There was also another great guy tatdieselgunz who challenged him to Miami. The coward recoiled by declaring “no girls are out of my league”. That was when I knew he was totally delusional.
I would recommend you go through Assanova, he was another great guy. But caveat emptor, he was a very tall guy (6’4) so lots of stuffs he does would not work well for you.
Read this piece of his:
https://web.archive.org/web/20101230071243/http://www.realassanova.com/2010/12/when-to-keep-it-conservative-with-women.html
Thanks. Yeah I’ve read through Assanovas archive it’s very good. I could tell he was legit,
Re that post also very accurate , it’s actually too depressing for me to read it atm with my lack of success OD as it’s all 100% true what he says. For tall good looking dudes it’s as easy as piss to pickup chicks, chicks will help that guy along and problem solve all the way for him. So yeah his perspective is great but no worky for me.
Unfortunately I know where I am on the totem pole I gotta graft hard to get it these days. Or else just pay. I’m tired of hookers tho.
I would say in some ways yep Mystery was damaging as he spawned an industry pretty much.
He did get laid a fair bit tho I’d bet.
Magician was his persona and dress also so .. I wouldn’t rip him for that specifically.
It was quite funny his disciples cloning his style of dress with the platform boots and jackets and furry hats w goggles etc . I peacocked but not like THAT.
@James
Have you booked a consultation with Sleazy?
By now, you probably can derive that for 6 or below guys, the best strategy is finding a good long term partner and hookers for sexual release. That is more sound than trying to hook up quickly.
Assanova had another post on his new blog which closed now, it stated; “If you are not a Chad, why do you play the game like Chad?”
I know that I am only a 6.5 in Vietnam and a 6 in USA (my height is 1m75-76). I have an alright slender face which is suitable to turn it into a pretty boy face. If I develop my body to the point where some muscles are visible through cloth, I would put myself clearly in the 7, and that is it. That is my absolute upper bound. I would never be a 7.5, let alone a 8.
When you look at yourself that honestly, you will feel more at peace. It is quite a calm resolution to God’s will.
I hope Sleazy agrees with me because he saw some of my photos
I’ll just lay out my experience as follows:
I had been dating chicks since about 14 yo, heavy petting with chicks from then.
Lost my virginity at the average age. Into an 4 year LTR w her around leaving school and into Uni. Followed by a succession of LTRs after that in my 20s. (Serial monogamist) Multiple ONS in between LTRs and here n there (I cheated a bit when drunk in my LTRs) Approached a usual amount when out.
But my “style’ was more romantic. It was haphazard and I left it quite open to the chick to have sex w me or not. I was a ‘nice guy’ and let the chick lead ,or not. I didn’t push much out of respect for women.
After reading the game I realised “ oh there is a game plan to this”and “ that’s about correct IME re the sequence of events more or less , I’ll use try use that only”
I’d dress a bit peacock for attention. I tried negging and got into banter a bit more and saw a different reaction and attraction from some chicks I wouldn’t have gone for before then . I thought more strategically and more of what I considered before to be ‘sneaky’. I got more lays using this and more often it was way more reliable than previously . I had lots of experiences and variety for a few years.
Also during that time I met a little Brazilian guy a housemate of a Brazil chick I was seeing and became drinking buddies n friends w him . This guy was shorter in height than me , had tattoos and was very sneaky indeed. He did things l hadn’t seen before with women. (Or since tbh).
He was very impressive and had massive balls w women out socialising. And he banged women behind dumpsters down alleyways!
I learned more from hanging with him , how to go for more quicker lays etc
That’s my story and about the size of my pickup experience, along the way I collected and analysed Heaps of PUA courses as I thought might increase my skills.
I decided to get sober at some point and still studied pickup but it was much much harder sober tbh. And my Brazil friend was gone at that point.
Then got into a very long LTR since then.
Recently separated and back in the jungle again.
That’s my pickup story.
You are probably right.
At my age pickup or OD is not really going to work. I’m probably a 7-7.5 and 5’11” only,
But I don’t want a relationship.
I wanna just fuck a heap of chicks like the old days haha
I’m bitter from my separation atm,
To me now, all chicks are only good for one thing only, even the quality ones
Bunch of scheming bitches the lot of them!
@James,
Then why did you need to go for hookers?
What do you mean?
For sex.
I went to hookers after I got separated and went on a holiday, where they were gorgeous and $50 -$100 a pop.
And on and off here and there in the past. If they were too hot to pass up such as trips to Amsterdam etc,
I don’t understand the question.
Because I love no strings sex with hot chicks.
Sleazy, you should make a post about Steve Jabba. He got a lot of asses whole doing daygame in London. But now he is in his 40 and seems to have financial problem. He got some videos on Youtube encouraging guys to sleep with Cougar.
I know virtually nothing about this guy, unlike with Ross Jeffries, and researching him is nothing I am particularly interested in. Also, a lot of information from the PUA heydays is gone, such as the London PUA forum.
There Is another PUA that seems less creepy, but are not that attractive either. He is Juggler. I pirated his ebook, got some nice Tips About Conversation, but the rest is just exaggeration.
I liked Juggler. He was a normal ish guy and had great tips on hacking conversation. His ideas re this were quite useful. Like mystery he learned how to be charismatic and useful social skills by being a street-art performer.
He didn’t get quality chicks tho. His GFs were all plain Janes. Still tho an interesting character to me I’d like to meet him IRL.
I think the only one who survived is Tyler, so he is doing quite well financially. He’s mostly been doing getting laid stuff for the past years and recently started posting infield videos. Apparently the restriction was coming from YouTube which is why he only posted the inner-game stuff on youtube. His seminars and bootcamps are still about getting laid, and most of his income and clients are pickup.
With the one note that he has over time switched over to status-based/networking game. This is where you approach to socialize, not pickup. The main issue with pickup, and why it was a scam was the idea you mass approach chicks with the intent of picking up each one. The new method is a lot more sane. You approach people for socializing (brent taught this first 15 years ago), and when you hit it off with a chick, you might pull, but your intent is approaching for networking and socializing. If one is horny why not pull. It’s the one you were gonna pull anyway even if you approached “for pickup”.
@Alek- Tyler / Owen Cook is a borderline psychopath imo. He almost certainly has some kind of Asbergers or spectrum or something. And he is a flat out lying manipulator of the highest order. I would not encourage anyone to check out his anything myself. 🙅🏻♂️
Tyler and his henchmen Julien & Jeffy branched off into “ charisma coaching” (lol) post YT ban.
A few of the others left RSD such as Todd Valentine and Another Aussie guy whose name escapes me. There was also another very interesting aussie character RSD Tim “ The Natural” . He left early and went on to run multiple scams in more business/ investing related areas.
Dunno what happened the black ninja turtle -Madison. XD
Or the German Max.
Luke went off into some investing type scamming also I believe .
And there was one more guy tall and blonde who married one of the most beaten ugly chick I have ever seen! Seriously you should look him up for the mega-lols. She is kicked.
There was another psycho (non RSD) that came on the scene later named “JMULV” who claimed a 1,000 laycount or some such, but who also did a great expose on Tyler worth checking out.
It’s just what they post on YT. They’re still selling getting laid stuff to make money. So the frontend is that, but backend is still getting laid stuff.
What do you mean by backend- so the seminars and business are still pickup apart from the YT channels? Yeah I imagined as much, too much money in that for them to scrap it, just laid low for a bit with that probably.
Man Jeffy looks shocking these days. Almost borderline alcoholic homeless person. Also Tyler with that big stupid beard and Jeffrey Dahmer glasses and fat gut ( Tyler had a video titled “ I’d rather die than miss a day in the gym at one point haha) Those clowns should not be teaching how to get laid ..under any circumstances!
RSD Brad Branson was the USA guy who got married to a busted chick.
And RSD Alex was the other Aussie guy. I read he was seriously depressed and suicidal towards the end of his tenure with RSD and after he branched off with his own coach persona/biz that failed.
Pickup really fucked him up. I almost feel sorry for the dumb guy as he just seemed young, dumb and gullible.
Seriously
https://images.app.goo.gl/heQ261YH5i4pJSZa8
And
https://images.app.goo.gl/s8pmSaLMsD3jp8LR8
Also this guy loves ragging on Owen Cook
https://images.app.goo.gl/kiHUkRfjEtsyFpHYA
Watch this demolition of Tylers Game guys it’s a ripper 😀
https://www.youtube.com/live/EYRiCGstTtA?si=3547ZFCDlFeJv7Fh
The guy debunking that video has its fair share of critics, by the way. I am not going to watch a two-hour video, though. If there is a segment you consider particularly good, feel free to post a time stamp.
Maybe watch the fist 25 min on 1.5x speed.
It’s a Tyler w 10+ years of coaching demoing the pinnacle of pickup and doing 10 cringey warm up sets on ugly and fat chicks. And getting blown out over and over.
Highlights are .15-17min in a chick tells tyler gets told to fuck off from warm up #7.
1:25-1:30min Tyler tells his students anyone can pull a 10 at the end of sat night .. but approaching a 6 at the start of Friday night is tough(!)
Tyler does about 20 approaches in the video and creeps 100% of people out,
John Anthony no doubt pulls as 6.5” but is a known liar and scammer also afaik. All his hot GFs are paid hookers was the real story,
But his breakdowns of Tyler and his lies are very spot on nonetheless. A liar calling out a liar yes but fun to watch. Tyler is 100% a pathological liar and always was ever since he first appeared in Strauss’ book claiming he was a bodybuilder etc. then he just copied all mystery’s shit when they lived together and set up RSD upstairs.
He is literally the worst person for any guy to get advice or coaching from.
And watch Papa Kho training Maui Thai at 1:33 😂
Yes, that is because I am unafraid of telling the truth.
Tyler also reckons he has made 9 figures from pickup!!
Wow. That’s pretty good.
This is surely him being modest. Tyler may in fact be the first self-made billionaire pick-up artist. I am hearing that he wants to fund a new institute at his alma mater, Queen’s University in Canada. He is currently in discussions with the administration regarding the Owen Cook Institute of Real Social Dynamics, Self-Help, and Personal Grooming.
lmao
$1B for sho!
Tyler went to Uni!?? No way.
Retarded Social Dysfunction I always called them.
Oh man I am loving this pickup drama 😆
https://youtu.be/6YPzLjPO1k0?si=k8mLqxiAZG2pqpQ8
I’m posting too much but Sleaxe and Alek
What do u make of this guy. Legit I think so far. Definitely.
https://youtu.be/eiIr6cYOT6w?si=48m5JorU-qarvSMg
Very inspiring video
I watched the first 45 seconds and clicked off. I’m not 100% sure where he was going, but my impression is that if guys are struggling with approach anxiety and picking up girls there is probably a reason. To list a couple:
1.) Most women don’t want to be randomly approached by most men—Solution: Become a 9/10 guy, or approach girls who have already warmed up to you and telegraphed interest.
2.) Guy is anxious because he has no positive reinforcement because he is either not good-looking/tall enough, or is and has been psychologically traumatized during childhood and adolescence—Solution: a.) Lower your standards or get money to pay for pussy. b.) Get a decent therapist and do a 12 step program.
No need to make 50 youtube videos about the topic.
That’s interesting u mention 12 step. I did yrs of that.
1) yeah cos that’s easy (!) lol
Soz PN that is not really a solution. You can bump yourself up about 1-2 points max from baseline looks only tbh imo. Tops. So depends where ur start point is looks/SMV wise.
2) a) b) & c) yes . And sex exp w any chick free or paid will give a guy some sexual confidence and build “ sex skills”. I actually would recommend a guy bang a bunch of HOT hookers if he can afford, should skyrocket his confidence for a while anyways.
I’d also add to this – wear lifts/heels in your shoes that don’t look too obvious . Wear ur hair high /spiked / or hat. And get a good skincare regimen or skin treatment they are very effective for good results.
He’s basically talking the same as on this blog.
Self improvement through discipline in every workable area.
I like this guy.
Good rig, good looks tattoos and a great voice. ( I always use voice as a measure if a guy is legit)
He definitely gets laid I’d bet,
Very intense character.
Love these “call out” videos and the Sif -Afrikaan accent 👌
“ who the FOCK are you bru?” 😆
Africa is on my bucket list of countries to travel in. Amazing I’ll bet, wanna go spend some time with the real wildlife,
It began on Afrika-ka-ka ! 🎵
White South Africans are all crrrazy also .
“He definitely gets laid I’d bet…”
I mean, even so, it doesn’t mean he has good advice. It’s kind of like those elite athletes that love to gaslight people by attributing all of their success to hard work, when in reality the trait of having high willpower (thus being hardworking) and being athletic in general is determined by genetics. They give the false impression that if you only try harder and never give up then you can get there too.
I agree with Pickernanny. I always found it weird and paradoxical when dating coaches are praised for “looking like they get laid”.
I don’t understand how tyler looking like an eccentric artist is an insult? And him having aspergers is an insult on his cred how exactly? If he gets laid despite the beard and glasses and aspergers, that makes him impressive. The guy you linked to getting laid? Not impressive. He’s playing on easy mode.
I’ve been approaching again in the past year. The amount of positive responses has even befuddled me. But I don’t hit on them, I do more brent style let’s say.
The reason people get the notion that women don’t want to be approached by random men is because they conflate approaching and hitting on women. You can approach without hitting on them. Completely different criteria. They’re happy with random men approaching them.
Yes, they have double standards for chads and everyone else. If you’re a chad you can do the most uncalibrated cringe approach and still have her happy and smiling ear to ear. For everyone else, you have to “respect her” (meaning not hit on her from hello). This is the discussion we had recently about how indirect game and plausible deniability is a must for guys who aren’t chads.
@Alek Novy,
I remember you tried to correct me on this point. Thinking back, I think you are totally correct.
I wonder if you think Assanova’s post is related to you:
https://web.archive.org/web/20101230071243/http://www.realassanova.com/2010/12/when-to-keep-it-conservative-with-women.html
Alek – are u serious?
Because wether or not they actually pull chicks is all hearsay that’s why?
I read years ago Aaron endorsing Scotty from GLL as a legit slayer.
I googled this Scotty and could tell from one look at a pic of Scotty that he was legit and therefore Aaron was probably legit also.
Because I’ve met legit slayers IRL and they have a certain look to them.( sexy)
You said “ if Tyler gets laid… etc” every shred of evidence points to Tyler being a fat bearded creepy weirdo charlatan mega scammer who absolutely does not get laid and has been lying about that for decades.
We’re you not raging in the past of indirect game and your time spent down the rabbit hole/ vortex of RSD and how it wasted your early 20s?
Now you are talking indirect game again?
Indirect Game is basically Mystery Method.
MM =“ approach indirectly, don’t telegraph interest off the bat.
Sleazys MG= “ women aren’t stupid , be sexual and show interest off the bat” (or have I got that wrong?)
I am very confused by all of this.
If a guy is getting laid frequently from his “game” then he has something to listen to.
The evidence is scant about who is legit or not due to the incredible amount of scammers in this space.
So having a radar for who that is , is paramount imo.
After that it’s check out their courses for more evidence for me 🤷🏻♂️ And pay attention to those who look like they actually get heaps of pussy.
How is it confusing James?
Sleazy is a Chad, you don’t know this by now? At 6’3, he is a Chad already.
Well I must surely be kidding if you would consider getting tips on “social skills” from someone who is Aspie/Autistic
And I must surely be getting tooled here now
No, indirect game isn’t mystery method. About a good 99% of naturals on the planet use indirect game and they’ve never heard of mystery.
– CQV’s link is relevant, you can check it out.
– RSD (tyler) has gone through many iterations. What he teaches today is more closer to brent smith than anything
One thing I’m sad about is that we were so proud of ourselves for bashing that 2000-2010 community, that we never noticed that they moved on and evolved. We never took the win. It’s easy to get stuck in “I helped debunk the pua fraud shit” and live in the past. But that was 2 decades ago. A lot has changed since.
If an aspie gets results, that’s EXACTLY whom I’d want to take advice from.
*Not saying tyler gets results. I’m answering the general point. But if there was an aspie guy who got laid and was good at networking? That would be the perfect person to take tips from. He had to consciously master this stuff, it wasn’t given to him by luck and talent.
Like with weightloss… As someone who struggled with obesity, I don’t want to hear from naturally thin people. I want to hear from someone who struggled and has to really figure it out. I utterly despite with a vengeance fitness coaches who looked fitter than 95% of the population before they picked up a weight, and they’re now coaching others. That’s who you shouldn’t be listening to.
@CQV
It’s confusing to me as Alek in the past had pretty much destroyed RSD and Indirect Game in mega detail vs various opponents who were pro IG/RSD ideas.
And now seems to be sticking up for Tyler Durden. ? 🤷🏻♂️
Well CQV , Sleazy used to describe himself as tall and lean with a big nose and similar in looks to Adrien Brody.
I imagined him as a BradP looking character.
So I thought he was some kind of outlier teaching with something worth investigating further.
But tbh from trying out his stuff, he must be better looking and a Chad.
Hence why I’ve been debating at times that his MG doesn’t work without high looks. Indirect/ MM is better imo.
You have to be very good looking and extremely sexually confident to boot.
His books are from his worldview , and a lot of it cannot be imitated. It’s kinda equivalent to a Chad releasing a book called “Chad Game”.
It would be a one pager book with just one line.
“ just be yourself”
Like what, my attacks on him were 10 years ago based on what he was doing 15 years ago?
Even back then I was working on outdated information. In 2015 I was attacking the 2010 Tyler.
As for indirect game, we already clarified. We don’t mean “pua indirect game”. That’s obvious bullshit and still stands.
When we use the term indirect game we just mean “not direct”, i.e being calibrated and weaving plausible deniability excuses for her so she doesn’t have to feel like a slut. That’s what we mean by the term.
The meaning of the term has changed. “Indirect game” refered to canned lines, routines and overly convoluted and complicated pua scam bullshit designed to “create attraction”. This is still and has always been a scam.
The term “indirect” today means don’t be an uncalibrated direct monkey. PUA is dead and now the big scam is direct game.
The new thing destroying guys lives is this bullshit about just be direct and crude and if she doesn’t like that, fff her. That is the new scam and it only works for chads.
Non chads can’t afford to be that direct. This (just go direct and crude) is the new scam today and what needs to be demolished.
@Alek –
I dunno mate that’s a bit of a paradox.
Aspie / Autistic = inability to figure out social interactions basically.
So an Aspie/Autistic ( a permanent brain malfunction) who has somehow overcome this lifelong brain ‘defect’ successfully and also codified his success step by step.
This is a dream mate.
I would be careful – this above ‘ story’ is exactly how John Anthony / JMULV is scamming. He claims he has severe OCD/ADHD which meant he ‘systematically and methodogically analysed all his interactions to codify what “works best everytime” .
And he is doing this because he is targeting those clients who hope this is actually possible.
And also that is exactly how Tyler Durden scammed his many thousands of poor suckers also.
Tyler claimed early days he had “read more pickup than you could estimate” or some such bullshit and he has also codeified everything to learn his elite secret pinnacle game and look at him in action in above video.
You seem to be falling back into the same old trap again tbh believing this is possible.
Honestly to me , Mystery and Neil Strauss codeified it better than any I’ve read.
Erik was a magician geek. Neil was a writer geek. Neither struck me as Autist tho. Just introverted shy geeky guys.
Sometimes I get the impression you guys have not really read those 2 books properly or something. Or you got in afterwards in the later Era .
Interestingly I read an article with Neil Strauss interviewing that jock player Tucker Max, who described the Game as “social skills for autistics”. I kinda see what he meant but moreso for introverts. Autistics flocked to MM in their millions but misunderstood it and fucked it up quite obviously to me.
The “I read all the books so you don’t have to” angle dates back to the early days of Internet marketing. For instance, David DeAngelo used it and he also told people about the dozens upon dozens of books they absolutely needed to read in order to understand women and dating. I also recall skimming general purpose Internet marketing materials, which recommended that if you do not have any particular angle for establishing credibility you could always claim that you have done the work, i.e. distilled all the knowledge out there, and now you are able to help others. This supposedly also justifies the high price for your product because you are saving others so much time.
@James,
Sleazy’s Minimal game still stands. However, on this older blog, there is a post about a Singaporean who did not fare well with local Singaporean girls. It means even such a tone-down method still does not work for guys in more conservative countries.
His club stories are very hard to imitate even by other Chads because the environment is very specific. I only read his first stories and find it difficult to see how such a man could do so. It doesn’t help that those clubs have long gone.
@Novy, is it too much to ask you to write some instructions on how to offer plausible deniability, or like you said: “offer the pizza to her”? I get the part of being calibrated, but the offer part is kind of hard to understand
@Alek
You do realise that these terms you are using “being calibrated” and *plausible deniability excuses for her so she doesn’t have to feel like a slut “ are actually terms pretty much coined by Mystery yeah?
Calibration
Plausible deniability
Anti slut defence
Tyler was and always will be a pathological liar and scammer . He has nothing to teach except scamming & marketing and I’m sure he would scam that ‘teaching’ out across 100 courses also and still not give the secret-insider-hack-shortcut-theexperts-don’t -want-you-to-know!
Cos that’s the basis of the con. It’s the “never-answer”.
There is no evolution with RSD beyond ‘New Scam # 1234”. The whole basis of RSD is a cult / scam. Always was, always will be no matter what they are peddling now.
Ps There is no “Game” to Social Circle pickup Alek ya dang fool!
I am a bit skeptical when I hear about PUAs like Tyler Durden now supposedly teaching something else. Does this mean that their two decades of scamming others suddenly do not matter? This guy has no credibility due to his past. Let us use an analogy: imagine some dude spent two years hawking get-rich-quick products. Then, for no clear reason, he talks about dollar-cost-averaging and buying ETFs. How believable is such a transformation? Besides, even if it is true that Tyler Durden is teaching a more plausible method of pickup nowadays, did he ever come clean about RSD? At best I am willing to accept the argument that he is trying the next wave in order to make money, in a very cynical way. This is also consistent with his past.
@Alek
Dude Indirect Game= Mystery. Method.
Go.back.and.read.his.book.and.Strauss’.
because.you.obviously.never.have 😛
Wtf.
MM is all ‘open indirect’
He never opened directly was his policy.
Showing Direct interest was his step 3 “seduction” phase done X minutes into an interaction after step 1 & 2.
Due to his theory of “Value”.
If you open direct he reckoned that’s putting the “seduction” phase3 before 1&2.
So showing the girl her value > yours off the bat. Not good if she is actually => than your value.
Banter. Neg. Disqualify. Push-pull tease whatever but don’t go pickup mode off the bat.
His theories were all good stuff.
A guy can really only open direct if.he.is.a. CHADDDDD!
Like Sleazy.
Therefore Sleazys book is pretty much useless to me (Soz Sleazy) unless the girl is < “value”than misha 🙂
To me now Sleazys Game is really “ Tall Guy Game” = Chad game ( I think)
So useless for me as I’m 5’11” only = no worky worky MG.
And I’m Gen X I still don’t know what the fuck a Chad even really is. I thought a Chad was a sports jock or rich good looking guy.
Minimal Game is generally applicable. Of course, your mileage varies depending on your looks, money, and status. However, you do not need to be 6’3″ to get laid with the advice in this book.
When I say indirect game I mean something like Brent Smith, though there are multiple flavors. But let’s say Brent Smith is a good example.
@Your long rants about how “indirect game” should only refer to MM
Ok dude, I don’t care. I’ll adopt the term “non-direct game” when talking to you if that prevents aneurisms. I care. So I can do you that favor.
New term: Non-Direct Game
Definition: Any strategy or approach (set of techniques or methods) to moving interactions towards a lay (casual sex), without hitting on a chick overtly. Something that all non-chads require, pretty much.
@James
Don’t you feel you come off really weird even through your writing?
Minimal game is rather gradual, the only contention is how long should you wait for sex because it depends on the countries.
A Chad is simply someone who is around 6’ or above. Adrian Brody’s face is not a dead warrant.
Chad is 8-10, so Sleazy is around that 8-9, or you can use the term Chad-lite.
The problem with MM (and PUA) is the scam part. MM isn’t just about not opening directly (that’s why it’s complex and convoluted). The idea is that you have to “build attraction”. This is the scam part that we were debunking.
You’ve tied not-being-direct with pua. But the two are separate dimensions.
– You can be direct and believe in the PUA scam (that one can build attraction through what they do and say)
– You can be indirect and NOT believe in the scam about “learning techniques to build attraction”.
That’s the issue here. Just because PUA was 99% a scam, it doesn’t mean we can’t keep the 1% which was true = namely anti slut defense and women’s need for plausible deniability is a real thing. We’ve always said that on here, even in our fiercest community debunking days.
The scam part of MM is the other 99%, the idea you have to do these elaborate things to “build attraction”. That’s not tied to being direct or not. The people teaching direct game are also PUAs and believe that you can learn things to say and do to “build attraction”. The scam part.
Alek & CQV
“No, indirect game isn’t mystery method. About a good 99% of naturals on the planet use indirect game and they’ve never heard of mystery.”
Dude 99% of naturals are good looking sexy cool guys. They have never heard of mystery cos they have never( ever )needed to read a book on “ how to get laid” because they all have been getting laid since they were about 12 years old . Period.
“–CQV’s link is relevant, you can check it out.”
Assanova is quite clearly a tall and quite alpha black C.H.A.D. A homie-Chad. A black fella Chad. Err an ….African American playa Chad ?whatever it’s called 😆
His advice is **USELESS** to us normals fellas hello? Hello? These guys live in a different reality. Sheesh. Sigh 🙄 you’re not getting my point guys.
“– RSD (tyler) has gone through many iterations. What he teaches today is more closer to brent smith than anything”
I will repeat once more – RSD Tyler is a pathological liar and mega creepy /gay weirdo (also possibly a borderline psycho/ sociopath from what I see) and likely highly Asbergers.
Do. Not, Watch. any. Of. RSD. Videos or listen to audio courses.
Mega-Warning and heed this re this RSD crew/cult
***RSD are using all sorts of NLP / conversational hypnosis “tech” to draw you in to their scams*** yes! ( I know this because I have studied same 😉 and then you’ll just *find yourself* going deeper .. and deeper.. anddd deeper now still., and as you do and as you *listen to the sound of my voice*as I am talking just Stop (!) and *clear your mind of rationality and logic* as I take you on a never ending journey to empty your reserves of precious life-time and especially your sweet cash, seeking the elusive secret answers only we at RSD know .. from our vast experience and expertise.
Etc etc etc.
Ps please link me to where he espouses anything like Brent Smith.
Don’t worry I have defences against RSD hypno influencing.
I shall post solid evidence of this if you think I’m a wacko.
But there is already enough evidence in John Anthony’s video takedown.
“One thing I’m sad about is that we were so proud of ourselves for bashing that 2000-2010 community, that we never noticed that they moved on and evolved. We never took the win. It’s easy to get stuck in “I helped debunk the pua fraud shit” and live in the past. But that was 2 decades ago. A lot has changed since.”
No dude. It hasn’t it’s all still there just a new scam. You should still be proud of the debunk of so much that had gotten overblown and out of control.
Just don’t fall for it again.
@Alek
Re the “build attraction” scam element.
To me, I always took this with a big dose of Common Sense re MM/ The Game books. ( they were my core reads of learning pickup for the years I had success with it)
There was another argument in the DeBunk re “ creating attraction “ also but I’ll leave it aside for now.
Re Building Attraction.
Can this be done? Yes .
To me what this phrase means is taking a woman with some bit of interest in me ( an Amber light say) baiting her into flirting and Investing with me and using various psych manipulation methods to get her to fuck me that night.
This was always what The Game meant to me,
A longer form of the title of the book to me is “The Game (Of Manipulation)”, that’s it.
The a few of the old PUAs used to say
There’s 2 ways for a guy to be successful with women
1) be a great guy
2) be a great manipulator
The Game to me is #2.
You guys advocate for 1) I had thought ie improve yourself to be a great catch.
But then also you say things that translate as #2.
Ie this “Chad -Lite” label you give youselves.
There is no such thing as a ‘Chad-Lite’ Alex!
Chad-Lite is just another name for The Game Of Manipulation.
This is why I am a bit confused.
You seem to advocate for both at the same time 🤷🏻♂️
“Assanova is quite clearly a tall and quite alpha black C.H.A.D. A homie-Chad. A black fella Chad. Err an ….African American playa Chad ?whatever it’s called…”
A Tyrone? He’s like if Jeremy Meeks had a brain.
QVC-
“A Chad is simply someone who is around 6’ or above.”
Chad is 8-10, so Sleazy is around that 8-9, or you can use the term Chad-lite.”
Nope. There are plenty of 6Ft+ Guys that skinny/lanky /ugly/nerd dudes that don’t get any pussy.
The subject of the blog post Ross Jeffries is a prime example of one of those types.
RJ is quite tall. 6’ at least. And a butt-ugly dork.
Who had to turn to hypnosis & NLP to try get any pussy.
I need a solid definition of what a Chad is.
There is no such thing as a ‘Chad-Lite’ in my mind 😛 you guys made up that one here only,
@PN
Yes a Tyrone exactly,
Meeks – now there was one good looking son of a bitch.
To me meeks is a Bad Boy type.
So does Chad also include Bad Boy types also,
Cos Bad Boys can be short,
Scotty F looks short to me.
Separate category in my mind the Bad Boy.
Bad Boy is generally thug, street, gang, criminal .
Chad to me is legit ,wealthy + Tall the distinction. Chad is “clean” and legitimate.
Also how would you categorise Tom Cruise out of interest.
There is a separate category in my mind of The Alpha Male. Which is pure “Leader Of Men” who can also be short like him but always wealthy as he is the leader.
Tom Cruise had the great fortune that he was picked by Hollywood executives to be a star, presumably due to his photogenic face. In his movies, they make him tall-looking even though he is a manlet. Still, being a Hollywood star and having a lot of money conveys status. This would be the case regardless of his looks. It seems that Tom Cruise is a total outlier. Are you aware of any other short male in a comparable position? The question is not entirely fair because due to the shrinking societal significance of Hollywood movies there are fewer movie stars and the few there are pale in comparison with 1980s and 1990s movie stars.
Most people have a similar progression. Brent Smith himself was an approach monkey hitting on everything in sight before he realized it’s much more efficient to not hit on women, and instead create scenarios where you can invite them to stuff or create plausible deniability frames. So did about 20-30 other guys I know of. And they all came to this realization independently of each other. As did I.
I don’t think there’s so much a trend that people are jumping on, as it’s something people figure out independently of one another when you do something for 10-20 years. Everyone starts out as a pickup monkey (even naturals, except they try to pickup chicks at 13, and figure the inefficiencies by the time they’re 16).
For example you Aaron were able to quickly figure out that pickup is highly inefficient and dumb very quickly. Most aren’t able to detect inefficiencies as quickly as you are Aaron. This is true in most areas for most people. They spend years or decades banging their head against the wall.
Now, if you’re a teacher, are you scamming if you teach your best realization of how things work? In a way yes, which is why we attacked them and pointed out the silliness of what they teach. But remember, 99% of people really believe what they teach in that decade of doing highly inefficient things.
The fervor with which they admit that what they did in the past was dumb varies.
For example Brent Smith spends half of his teaching talking about how dumb he was to go around hitting on random chicks and trying to pick them up, and how stupid that is, and how he can’t believe he did that for decades. Tyler has more of a “we have more efficient ways now, I wish I didn’t waste so much time doing something so inefficient, but alas, I got some benefits out of it, but I wouldn’t do it like that if I could do it over”.
I think the difference is Brent wasn’t selling products, so he can more forcefully say what I did for decades was dumb, man I was so dumb. Whereas someone who made millions selling it can’t be that direct.
I can relate and empathize though. If I sincerely believed that the best way to lose weight was keto and everyone has to do keto, and then over time I realized it’s not really the best way for everyone, I can’t come out and say “I sold bullshit for 10 years”. Of course I’m going to downplay it. Everyone would.
@Alek
“That’s the issue here. Just because PUA was 99% a scam, it doesn’t mean we can’t keep the 1% which was true = namely anti slut defense and women’s need for plausible deniability is a real thing. We’ve always said that on here, even in our fiercest community debunking days.”
“The scam part of MM is the other 99%, the idea you have to do these elaborate things to “build attraction”. That’s not tied to being direct or not. The people teaching direct game are also PUAs and believe that you can learn things to say and do to “build attraction”. The scam part.”
Well yes and no. Re this idea of “building attraction” being a scam.
A girl can be a Green off the bat based on guys Looks which case a LOT that stuff is VERY unnecessary yes!
But if she’s an Amber/maybe girl – fuck yeah a guys gotta gotta work and graft to try turn her to a green and get laid that night? He has to “build” .. something 🤷🏻♂️ call it attraction, desire, jealousy, fear of loss, whatever angle he can work in.
My Brazilian player friend worked like this,
He used Jealousy-Game to pressure chicks to fuck him quicker. That was his core method actually more or less.
And we know if a chick is a Amber about a guy, in her head she reckons she’s maybe better/hottter than the guy? So she’s actually probably the chick that guy wants to fuck cos she’s the sexy one,
not the green lights equal or less in looks than him. The plainer Janes maybe.
And then also the further a guy goes down the Looks scale .. well then it’a lot less greens and only a few Ambers so he’s definitely gotta graft to ‘build’ something to get in there,
Sleazy used to write “ambers/ grey zone girls aren’t worth the work – just go someplace else If not enough green girls”
Well that’s easy for him to say. He gets a lot more Green lights everywhere apparently!
Most of us have to work the Amber/ grey zone girls cos they the sexy ones and they hoping for a Chad tonite.
🤷🏻♂️
The problem with PUAs was they applied this Amber-girl game to all girls regardless , they were too autistic to see when a chick was obviously Red or Green and also preached that you could create attraction out of thin air with any chick and lots of other bullshit.
Plus a lot were just literally cloning themselves to look like mystery and even doing his magic tricks. They didn’t even have the sense to work with the principles not straight mimic everything they saw.
Mystery codified all the good shit imo.
He runs it on chicks that perhaps just like his looks when it’s unnecessary for sure,
Maybe he should have hung out with Sleazy a bit.
So that’s how MM worked for me,
I got a lot more Ambers home and sexier chicks than I’d had previously, but it has some serious longer term downsides.
@Sleazy
“Tom Cruise had the great fortune that he was picked by Hollywood executives to be a star, presumably due to his photogenic face. In his movies, they make him tall-looking even though he is a manlet. “
Absolutely. I would say moreso due to his amazing acting ability and some good connections myself. He did have a cute boyish face but originally his teeth were *very* busted before dental work and the bif white smile came.
Cruise to me was/is clearly a geek that became more “Alpha” over his career. Watching him on that Letterman interview “going crazy” as it was titled was interesting as his body language is very strange and he is clearly nervous and uncomfortable. Very defensive and kinda beta behaviour.
Which got me musing why he held up as an example of “Alpha”.
“It seems that Tom Cruise is a total outlier. Are you aware of any other short male in a comparable position? The question is not entirely fair “
An Outlier then, ok. I’m not trying to catch anyone out or be unfair , I’m merely confused myself about what is a Chad & what is an Alpha Male as I missed all that Chad stuff it just came into parlance all a sudden for me.
Along with a mythical “GigaChad” (lol).
I still think in older terms like The Bad Boy and The Alpha etc.
To me a pure definition of the Alpha Male= Leader Of Men. And totally possible for The Alpha to be short, I’ve had many short work managers for example. the classic ‘Small Man Syndrome.’
Alphas are always fighting with other men for dominance is what I look for IRL.
So maybe Cruise *is* actually Alpha – as he kind of fights with his interviewers etc,
Re outliers – I think there are outliers who are very successful with women (and not movie stars). Not the old pua lore of the mythical “fat bald guy with incredible game that pulls supermodels” but short guys with alpha qualities usually very “ cute or baby faced” guys I have been friends with IRL.
Leaders are normally taller than average. You cannot use managers in a corporate environment as an example due to nepotism, corruption, and DIE mandates. According to corporate dogma, anybody can learn to be a leader, at least if they are female or a minority.
More on these “ cute faced” player friends of mine –
I guess they are “Chad-faced” guys without the Chad height.
They have alpha qualities – all were “ cool” guys.
They all were charmers/ manipulators also.
They still had be indirect and to use ‘strategy’ as didn’t have height,
-One UK guy used charm and persistence.
-The other Brazilian used jealousy game and other more Gamey things.
So that’s why still advocate for Mystery Method.
I used MM books and strategy ideas and started to get similar results to them and could also see then how these 2 guys in particular used similar strategy.
So to me those 2 books were/are still fantastic and solid books with a lot that works in them.
Examples
False Time Contraint
I knew another Italian player that always told chicks following in all his pickups in Bars&Clubs “ this is my last night in X city. I fly out tomorrow “ ( a total lie)
Same same as an FTC. But he never read a book on pickup in his life, he was a natural.
An FTC is a sales psychology tactic.
Preselection – the lil Brazilian player guy I know used preselection / demand a LOT. “ women want what other women want”
He would make sure a chick he was gaming saw him flirting with other chicks and then bounce between chicks to check who was getting jealous. (. ‘ look – she wants me too ! Are you gonna Buy me tonight or not?’ ) Genius.
Again, a sales psychology tactic.
Supplies are limited this hot product is in demand ,better buy this Dick today!!
Basically – putting pressure on a chick to reveal interest and go from Amber to Green.
Sales psychology is proven and it works.
Because either sex have a common psychology can be manipulated. It’s working out that psychology with women men struggle with.
Mystery method to me is basically ALL sales psychology. 👍 👍 👍 it’s a sales model of pickup. I am the salesman, she is the buyer, great sex (tonite!) is the product.
That’s The Game ( of manipulation) to me.
So in closing obviously I believe MM/ The Game to not be a scam. They are based on proven techniques of psychological manipulation and influence. Which is why your DeBunk was not completely correct. The baby was thrown out with the bathwater.
The scam was this was sold to millions of Autistics and Introverted beta Geeks. And the scammers took advantage of them and relieved them mucho thousands of their dollars ($4K for a bootcamp!) some like RSD in very evil ways adding hypnosis and NLP and ruining lives in the process.
I want to post a clear example of RSD as I feel you guys don’t believe me re this NLP /hypnosis and the influence of it.
Both are linguist manipulation methods and *very* effective in sales along with the other sales psych influencing tactics.
RJ’s Speed Seduction *can* be very useful and powerful stuff it’s just very very technical linguistically and time consuming to learn. It’s not really necessary for pickup .. but it is heaps of fun when it works and gets a lay.
Very powerful stuff.
I got a few great lays using it and got chicks dripping wet and hanging to bang me as RJ used to claim. Like horny AF to pull me home,
But again the caveat that *I am a cute-faced shorter charming guy.
I wish I had those pickups on “ infield video” tbh I was very excited when I got it to work. Fantastic sex with those ladies 😎
The obvious counter-argument is that these women arguably would have banged you without your “speed seduction” techniques. Isn’t Ross Jeffries himself the best counter proof there is against his method? It is as if some guy who has racked up $200k in debt would hold seminars on how he became a multimillionaire. (Such people also exist.)
@Sleazy
“Minimal Game is generally applicable. Of course, your mileage varies depending on your looks, money, and status. However, you do not need to be 6’3″ to get laid with the advice in this book.”
I’ve pitched this before to you but anyway, I’ll try again.
MG is a very good book..But
– it’s a bit too ‘meta’ , some bits are definitely way too vague.
Example – in your stories and blog stuff describing a pickup u always say something like this ;
“ i received an IOI ( the chick eye fucked you for example) , I approached , I touched , we bantered for a little bit.,,,Then I isolated her..”
I always read this banter bit frustratedly and said aloud “ bro – WTF did you SAY? What banter, what frames did you set verbally, what kind of humour, how did you deliver it, etc etc
This stuff is *very* important ! This is the bit guys struggle with the most.
Shy guys can’t banter /tease, it’s a mind-block,
It’s doesn’t come natural they are “nice guys” and “beta” afraid to possibly offend a chick.
This is the BIGGEST sticking point for guys imo.
They really struggle to move into “ High Status” communication.
I could not banter very well before reading pickup. That’s a key bit I learned from MM/The Game. Mystery breaks banter and teasing down step by step and codifies to be repeated in baby steps. It’s fantastic for that. As are other books.
Negging is just banter and begging absolutely works if a guy has some looks.
MG needs more examples of the verbal interaction here an added chapter called “Bantering” – detail out a few pickups and examples of what was said back and forth.
And your take on it – what’s going on during banter and why you use it,
High status, a display of Wit, social dominance ( I dunno there are many theories)
Why DID you use it btw from your perspective Id love to hear your take. Cos it’s in a lot of your pickup stories.
Also re fashion & body language
– “a picture tells a thousand words” they say
For me your book is near useless for tips on above as it has no pictures ..at all!
Everything in the book may well be 100% true and solid advice – but for *learning* sorry it’s crap.
Add pics of your old pickup outfits “the sleazy rockstar” look ( that BradP advised you to go for btw for your make-over 😉)
Blur your face to hide your identity (easy appendix to the book)
Show pics of your body language.
Much much much more useful for learning then.
A top book then this Minimal Game – the revised and expanded edition.
My 2 cents . But I am right 😂 CJ
Likewise with your online game book,
It’s all words . What fucking use are words!( lol )
Screenshots , pictures, conversations, back and forth banter if used,
Add it all in to the revisions = best books ever written (possibly) = mucho cash for you bro,
Connect with me and pay me . I will help you revise these books. For real. 😛 we split da profits tho, we gotta work that out first haha.
I’ll work on a % of sales basis. 😉
I need the cash!
@sleazy
“The obvious counter-argument is that these women arguably would have banged you without your “speed seduction” techniques. Isn’t Ross Jeffries himself the best counter proof there is against his method? It is as if some guy who has racked up $200k in debt would hold seminars on how he became a multimillionaire. (Such people also exist.)“
No no & no. 😊
They wouldn’t have if I had gone direct (blown it) it was an early evening pickup and chick with her friends. I could have used other “methods” or a more natural “ method” sure. But running patterns about the weather in the tropics whist eye fucking a chick and getting her chick wet AF .. dude that’s just good dirty FUN also.
I had never done that before,
And I doubt she had ever been picked up that way before either. It was great!
The result being she was incredibly keen pulled me to her place and jumped straight down to her knees for a BJ with the solid porno eye contact from below and eagerness usually reserved for a Chad. Then followed by lots of dirty sex. She even offered me a pass out on using a condom she was that horny by that stage.( I declined and jogged down to the nearby 7-11 and back while she waited, in heat lol)
This kind of method can ramp up a chicks horniness big time and in a normal public setting without doing anything touch wise that’s too socially obvious as Sleazy ( as long as no one is in earshot
)It really is useable and gives unique results but very hard, long and complex to learn.
Ross Jeffies is a tall lanky skinny porous faced Geek as Strauss put it. I reckon he did actually get laid using it and it was the only way he could get any pussy at all tbh, so your wrong there. But he made much more success from it ‘Speed Seducing ‘heaps of horny guys into his seminars.
But it’s just really hard to learn as it’s all hypnosis principles and NLP stuff. NLP was originally written to be overly -complicated also for sales. It is a mega-geek stuff/ way of looking at the world.
NLP is used by lots of marketers & sales stars such as prime example Tony Robbins. Robbins has made gazillions using NLP so there ya go proof in the pudding that for sure it works Big Time to influence.
He has his multi million dollar mansion and private helicopter outside thanks to his use of NLP.
SS is hypno & NLP applied to seduction as RJ applied it.
@Sleazy and everyone else.
Don’t take my word for it,
Here’s another good watch with some evidence of Jeffries using his “tech”.
Look up the UK doco series “Louis Theroux -weird weekends (?name) – Hypnosis episode,”
It is very very funny. Louis goes to the USA and meets a range of Hypnotist types including RJ and gets pickup coaching from RJ.
RJ does a demo on a random chick at a coffee shop. No from what I know, Theroux doesn’t do ‘setup’ stuff as he is a DeBunker/ investigator type guy, But have a look at how RJ fares with the chick,
@Sleazy –
“I am a bit skeptical when I hear about PUAs like Tyler Durden now supposedly teaching something else. Does this mean that their two decades of scamming others suddenly do not matter? This guy has no credibility due to his past. “ and “ He is moving onto the next wave to make money etc”
YES.
@Alek
Brent Smith Is an innovator imo.
He took it next level with his method.
E.g. he only gives his number out he never takes a chicks number (the balls!)
Imo he is genuine to a point. It works for HIM. But still scammy re his business and optimising revenue in.
His teaching is heavy on the “ affirmations” for example and he never ever points out the obvious – that he is a CHAD!
Another example and same story with Zan Perrion, and his “ teachings” (mostly useless lol@ his Arts Amore club ) not sure if he’s actually Tall tho,
To me, Zan absolutely no doubt has slayed in his prime and all stories of his success and ease with women are likely true, he is the “ romantic” archetype and women eat that shit up with the big spoon.
Zane early banter stuff is actually wicked also. 👍 👌
He was the original “ boyfriend destroyer” guy.
But he went into scamming also like the rest.
My point being he also never points out he ls extremely good looking (possibly ex male model I read somewhere)
Re Tyler – you used the word “ genuinely”
There is nothing “genuine” about Tyler,
He is an extremely calculated sneaky mofo.
He has not had any “ realisations” it’s just on the bandwagon again.
Don’t watch his videos!!! He’ll suck ya right back in with his sneaky influencing NLP & Hypno “Tech” ! 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Ok here’s the video;
Go from about 15:20 and see a bit of what DeSilva says about hypnosis influencing
Then about 16 min in watch Ross Jeffries it’s only about 10 minutes this bit with RJ.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x876w0r
It’s clear to me RJ was getting some regular pussy using his SS “method”.
Now just stop and imagine (😵💫with me,right now 😵💫lol) a better looking & sexy guy using that Hypno lingo and what results he could get. 😉
@Alek
“For example you Aaron were able to quickly figure out that pickup is highly inefficient and dumb very quickly. Most aren’t able to detect inefficiencies as quickly as you are Aaron. This is true in most areas for most people. They spend years or decades banging their head against the wall.”
I think that’s one of the big problems with “Lies-To-Children”. Sure,there are valuable lessons that can probably only be learned/truly understood/truly appreciated through making mistakes and realizing them on your own rather than having been warned about them beforehand,but the issue is the price you end up paying for the lesson might well be more than its worth.
There are people that have developed an incredible work ethic in fitness by not having started out with efficient/smart methods. (think of the crazy kids who do multiple sports in the morning,hit the gym in the afternoon,and then do 300+ pushups every night to end their day. Probably a super rare sight in this day and age though..)There is value in being able to summon your own inner “David Goggins”.
The issue is that many folks in that category often do it for too long and end up collecting an assortment of debilitating long term injuries. For a lesson that they probably could have gotten without paying that level of a price. maybe they wouldn’t have the same level of appreciation/understanding, but they’d certainly be in a better position to make use of the learning experience compared to the folks who are too physically broken to continue their training.
With pickup,the price of having to sift through information to find gold is time. (unless you start off in a really bad place like Sean Larson and end up the town weirdo because of how little you understand social dynamics.) The information/lesson however is not much use if you learn it at too old an age though. hopefully it at least saves you from the unenviable fate of ending up some old hag’s retirement fund in that case.
@Maou- is David Goggins legit?
I don’t know much about him except for a quick look at his book in a store and 1 interview i saw . Is his story true.
@Cheeky_James
It is time to drop the mask. I don’t believe in your supposedly glorious sexual history, as well as your “game”.
I find it hard to understand why a guy with a laycount in 10 could be bothered with Mystery method. I find it extremely damaging, negs, routines.
Book a consultation as me in the past to receive personalised help. Sleazy told me to have short hair and I did, steal a few looks from girls.
Everyone has the right to be anonymous. Sleazy is a controversial figure and those leftist media will try to claw their way into his personal life, so respect his privacy.
@QVC
Sure ok just cos u said so (lol)…not 😛
Dude all my stories are legit and I’m mid 40s.
(I could teach you a thing or two Sonny Jim!)
As far as I can gather you’re still on your V-plates. Ie 0 sex experience IRL. So yknow, go figure.
Sounds like you read the book and have psychological “blocking” issues re negging chicks and bantering w them.
I was talking about his Books only specifically.
Have done a 1 on 1 w him re online dating so he’s seen my face also.
I could post some evidence but not gonna ,that would be qualifying myself to a bunch of strangers on the internet 🤢 🤮
Check out a video I posted of Ross Jeffries “infield” when it gets through moderation It’ll pop up soon. RJ comes off as a ‘geeky player’ to me tbh in the video the way he’s acting and his convos w Louis Theroux. He defs was getting pussy using his method.
Dude you are in Vietnam why F don’t you just pop down to HCMC , go to Apocolypse Now bar with $50 and fuck a hot hooker?
Or else just go to Phuket Thailand and fuck a Russian one? ffs – ur planning to fly all the way to Europe just to get ur dick wet with a white chick? Just pop ur Cherry bro . The sooner the better it doesn’t matter just as long as she’s fit enough to remember as your first.
“You never forget your first “ they always say…
@QVC
I’m not really interested in this playground stuff tbh. “CJ You’re a liar! -no I’m not !- yes you are !”
If you are mates with Sleazy just ask him directly. he’s seen my face he’ll have a good estimation of me from my face and talking to me.
Dude just go off and pop ur Cherry ass-ap at Apocalypse Now bar HCMH😆
That’ stands for “ Ass soon as possible”
You wanna see a pic of 2 hot Javanese hookers I fucked at the same time bro .. ?? “who the FOCK are you bro!” To quote John Collins the South African playa 😆
Ps your countrywomen are hot SLLLLLUTTTS bro 😛 some got Gonnorhea tho. Wear 2 rubbers.
CQV-Ps is there actually decent pickup forums still active online .. that are not full of virgins that will accuse me of being a liar because I have actually slept with a woman?
Anyone?
All help appreciated.
Thanks CJ
I would appreciate if you toned it down a little.
Ok Aaron no worries.
Pls check out the Theroux video on Ross Jeffries if you have 10 mins. A bit more research required to classify his method as non-functional.
Thanks, CJ
@Cheeky
You can look up videos of him training,competing and even his injuries. There is no doubt the man is tough.
Do I think he is a good role model? Absolutely not. In fact,I have had an absolute nasty experience with a fitness coach of a similar mentality more than a decade ago. He was supposed to be a Muay Thai instructor,but thought instead of giving me the training I was paying him for (The actual Muay Thai instruction/training),he thought it appropriate to try and “get me in shape” first by trying to get me to lose 30+ lbs in a single month.
The dumbass had me doing all sorts of high impact workouts that were inappropriate for my weight. (I think I was like 290 – 310lbs at the time) My feet and my joints were in terrible pain. Fortunately, I had done my research beforehand and knew the shit he was putting me through was dangerous (and wrong. They were literally expecting me to lose weight everyday. That’s not how it works..) and ended up quitting soon after,even though my folks thought I was being weak willed/undisciplined at the time for not pushing through with the unreasonable program. I wish I had listened to my instincts when they presented the contract to me. This did teach me the important lesson to be very mindful of instructor quality,which has served me quite well.
This nasty experience could have led to me being put off by fitness and martial arts training forever. (My first taste of MA training was a good Boxing gym beforehand, so aside from research, I had already met people who knew how to train reasonably.) A less knowledgeable person could have been given the completely wrong impression,that training is supposed to be this sink or swim process that weeds out the weak, when it is these group of people that NEED this training the most!
Honestly,at the peak of my fitness when I was training at the gym near my grandpa’s with far better instructors (At 235 lbs and far stronger/resilient due to consistent weight training. they got me fit through actually giving me the Muay Thai training that I paid for to learn.),I probably could have handled that ass instructor’s exercise (Just not the insane diet he was putting me through. expecting literal everyday weight loss in addition to the super high impact workouts is plain insanity to say the least) program better. Because my time training intelligently in that gym had allowed me to gradually learn the meaning of employing intensity without fucking myself up in the process.
Sorry,you probably weren’t looking forward to reading all that,but I guess it was a good time to rant. I definitely do not support Goggins’ way of trying to sell fitness to the common man. There’s a time and place for learning to employ brutal intensity. its not something that should be done regularly (for your health and sanity) for the long term or especially in the beginning.
@Maou
Nah I don’t mind as I’m a ranter myself(lol)
I have lots of spare time on my hands atm and mainly just posting on forums and experimenting with Online Dating.
I see what u mean this “ Drill sergeant “ approach to coaching. Like that movie Full Metal Jacket and the army bootcamp instructor chief character.
“ what’s your major malfunction Private Pile?!”
“ how tall are you Pile? 6 foot 3? I didn’t know they stacked shit that high!” Etc
I would end up like Pvt Pile and shoot /punch the instructor myself.
It’s a terrible approach. Like you said it ended up in injuries . Btw if 30lbs =13.6kg that’s an unachievablr amount of weight to lose in 1 month. That guy was a moron.
This is why I fear the Gym and classes. Because these ‘motivational’ idiots live there, plus the stupid Doof Doof music but that’s another story,
I just picked up a cheap DVD box set at a bookshop sale bin. It’s discovery channel docos of Elite Special Forces training. SAS UK and Green Berets US . “ 3 weeks of hell” or some such, I love this stuff. (Always dreamed to be in the army myself since a little kid drawing guns and tanks at the kitchen table).
After a year of mental hell from my Ex going through a separation .. I reckon Elite Ops training bootcamp should be doable for me now. Can’t be that hard in comparison (lol).
I have seen the French foreign legion training doco, fuck me that is some tough shit, pure mental and physical torture indeed.
“This is why I fear the Gym and classes. Because these ‘motivational’ idiots live there, plus the stupid Doof Doof music but that’s another story”
– A precaution I have implemented (and can recommend to others) when visiting a new gym and want to make use of a personal trainer to help you is to print a training book of my choice (In my case,its “Superior Fat Loss” by Jay of Aworkoutroutine) and bring it to the gym,tell them that the program laid out in it is the plan you wish to follow. Consider it a red flag if they are unwilling to go with it and look elsewhere.
My experience has been that most common local trainers know didly squat (pun on purpose) about proper programming. They are good at getting you to EXERCISE (break a sweat for the sake of breaking a sweat and burning calories),but not in training you for a long term goal. (i.e. getting your Bench to 225 lbs or designing your diet to effectively facilitate sustainable weight loss,etc.)
They can still however serve as useful form checkers and spotters, and assist you with loading and de-loading the plates. That’s how I implemented the services of the gym trainer where I used to train at. I was originally only planning to use his services for a limited time until I got lifting technique solidly ingrained, but when I got to heavy enough weights, the small extra fee was worth it to me for the convenience of having someone help me with the loading of the plates and keeping me safe while I focus on pushing myself.
I am only speaking from personal experience though. There may well be trainers out there who are so terrible, they can’t even serve as form checkers to help you ingrain proper lifting technique, but you’ll probably be able to spot early on if this is the case as long as you do your due homework.
@Maou
Tbh I reckon if I brought a book in they would all turn me down here. They don’t like that kind of thing in Aus. Going outside of the norm/rules (aussies LOVE the rules and regs ) Because that’d mean they’d actually have to read the book. So they’d throw OH&S at me why “we cant do that sorry”
Do u work a sedentary computer job?
My old career was this and I gained a lot of kgs and struggled with losing much of it doing the recommended exercise.
After my burn out and reading some stuff re “ why office jobs make you depressed”
I switched to a part time hands-on job including light lifting and moving but 90% on my feet all day.
The weight is falling off me at a rapid pace and lost 2-3” inches on my waistline so far, 😎 👌
And depression reduced drastically also . Thank God.
Human beings were never designed for sedentary computer jobs imo, terrible for all around physical and mental health.
I’m not telling you to make them read the book. Yeah,a run of the mill local gym trainer probably won’t be enthused to make that sort of effort. (unless you’re willing to pay a higher fee)
I never made the gym trainer read my training book. The only job I gave him is Form/Technique Correction on the exercises, Spotting, and Equipment Assistance. He pretty much had zero idea/input on my diet,but he saw me losing weight effectively, so he didn’t question me and just worked with a Need-to-Know basis approach. A reasonable trainer that wants to make a buck probably wouldn’t refuse a simple arrangement like this.
The catch to all this however is YOU need to have made the effort to read/know your training plan enough to be able to explain concisely the only thing the trainer needs to know and work with. Of course, if you’ve already ingrained the proper technique for your exercises, you can go right ahead to working alone in the weightroom, but if you’re brand new, this initial investment would definitely be worth your while. (assuming the gym trainer is at least decent.)
And yeah, the 9-5 in general isn’t healthy. Even people working manual labor end up collecting wear and tear over the years from their work. (That’s why smart gymgoers who take their deloads and rest days seriously don’t end up broken. People who work manual labor can’t just take a break whenever they need to) If only we as a society strived for efficiency in the workplace. Even a computer job wouldn’t be so bad if you could go home after you’ve finished all your work instead of being forced to stay on your desk for nearly your whole day doing nothing productive. But I’d say that’s a topic for another day.
@Sleazy
“ The “I read all the books so you don’t have to” angle dates back to the early days of Internet marketing. For instance, David DeAngelo used it and he also told people about the dozens upon dozens of books they absolutely needed to read in order to understand women and dating. I also recall skimming general purpose Internet marketing materials, which recommended that if you do not have any particular angle for establishing credibility you could always claim that you have done the work, i.e. distilled all the knowledge out there, and now you are able to help others. This supposedly also justifies the high price for your product because you are saving others so much time.”
Yea.Absolutely .100% .bang on.
This is exactly how many, many scams work across the board..
This “ knowledge is Power” idea touted around.
More Book knowledge = More Power somehow. (Not =more confusion)
These wealth scammers are an example also. Tai Lopez with his stocked bookshelves of knowledge behind him in his scam videos.
Btw Do you know the YTer “Coffeezilla” ?He’s a great scam investigator .
I fell into that trap on my own thanks to Torrents. Cheers Pirate Bay! free ebook websites and other weird ‘UseNet’ type sites to track down the rare shit.) I collected wayyyy too much info on everything. It was impossible to categorise then afterward for me.
I went down the DD rabbit hole and watched pretty much all his courses, mainly to check out some of the reputed OG “ wizards “ from the beginning of the scene mentioned in The Game . ( Rick_H for example and some others)
He had one called “ 77 Laws for Dating and Success w Women”… 77 ! 😳 😆
I also read or skimmed most of his book list on my quest for knowledge and “secrets”.
Not bad books actually most of them but superfluous. The Evolutionary Psych were probably the most interesting. Those and “Sperm Wars” .. great book!
@Mao
Yeah for me its a lot more than “ in general isn’t healthy” – over time it can be a killer. I observed a lot of my finance managers and CFOs were very obsese indeed. My last CFO looked like the Michelin Man . I reckon he’s having a coronary very soon. That’s a deadly effect. I blew out massively at one point with the HPB and anxiety, so I just binned the career.
I work a PT hands-on job now , with light lifting and movement talks , and on my feet 90% of 8hrs of a shift. Walking around for the most part, the weight has been falling off at a rapid pace over 5 months now. I reckon 2-3” off my waist. And I could eat aMcDonalds 3x per wk wouldn’t matter. ( I eat junk half the time still) I can eat pretty much what I like and the weight is still coming off,
I read in some diet book “ the body is like a dynamo” gotta get it moving for *long periods* to turn it into a fat burning machine.
Something like 9 hrs sitting at work + 2 hrs of intense gym either side won’t work for significant weight loss. Imo
My office friend is a big boy now and smashing CrossFit . It’s been 6 months of 4-6 sessions per week but taken a long time to notice much weight loss tbh, cos he’s still doing the 40-50 hrs of sitting and stressing at work. Stress is a big factor also. I’ve been on holiday in Thailand eating heaps and drinking heaps of booze and magically lost weight – due to being on holiday and de-stressing.
Maybe this is all obvious stuff to you and u already know but 🤷🏻♂️
If someone wanted to lose big Kgs I’d say quit the sit down job and take a movement job for a year. Even a part time one. He wouldn’t even have to diet that much,
In my mind we are all still orangutans , we are still built for climbing and swinging out of trees all day and eating bananas . None of us are built for sit down computer work at all.
@Maou
“With pickup,the price of having to sift through information to find gold is time. (unless you start off in a really bad place like Sean Larson and end up the town weirdo because of how little you understand social dynamics.) The information/lesson however is not much use if you learn it at too old an age though. hopefully it at least saves you from the unenviable fate of ending up some old hag’s retirement fund in that case.“
Correct. Hard to find legit teachers who are not scamming and whose advice meets a guy where he is at. There seems to be a brand new crop of coaches coming every 6 months now still,
I’ve sifted through a shit ton of info .
AMA haha. that’s why I’m on this blog to talk pickup and chicks and what works mainly .
Sleazy books are very good. His MG is a “Pillar” book imo mainly for what he lays out at the start re women being the sexual selectors.
But lacks a bit of specificity imo for learning . And needs more pics/graphics of some kind. A picture can be worth a thousand words for learning anything.
Tbh I’m still a bit confused about the definition of Direct Vs Indirect Game now from some of Aleks comments.
From what I gather it’s
Direct = express sexual interest & intent verbally and physically from second 0 in approach.
I need example of an “opener “for this to understand the exact definition .
Does “ hey I thought u were cute and I just had to come and meet you + arm touch” = Direct?
Or is it more “yo baby u so fucking HOT! Hubba Hubba! Mmm-Mm! + arm around the waist = direct ?
MG Indirect =being calibrated and weaving plausible deniability excuses for her so she doesn’t have to feel like a slut.
That is look for iOi’s, approach, escalate, isolate , close
PUA Indirect = canned lines, routines and overly convoluted and complicated “bullshit” to “ create attraction”.
For me the canned lines and routines were always just an easy way to learn the general phases MG also talks about, like a sales script .
Pua Indirect has some unnecessary phases that may or may not be removed after the whole chain of phases / moves is memorised.
I always understood that it’s a Y/M/N from a chick from second 1 of approach and that for Chicks of my league there was no “ creating attraction” from thin air using PUA shit, 🤷🏻♂️
But using a script to learn the general phases of pickup is the *better way* to me,
Baby went out with the bather water. 👎
MG is just a “German” version of Mystery Method to me basically.
Lots of similarities between then just different geeky lingo in MM.
It’s just an example of German efficiency to me.
And in my mind and this is from a guy with a *LOT* of IRL experience n success and a *LOT* of sifting and research .
There is hardly ANY “game” to “Social Circle Game” at all.
I don’t understand this tacking on of the word “ Game” to it .. if anyone is selling a course in how to “improve” in this “game” it is without a doubt Bullshit. And just the latest Scam trend without question.
Improving getting laid thru a social circle ought to be simple and more just like ‘network more ‘ get yourself more visible only?
“Social Circle Game” is not about getting laid through your existing social circle. It’s just an unfortunate name, but I can see why they called it that since the alternative possible names were even more confusing. It’s about funneling most of your non-hot leads into places where you have social proof and status so they can grow hot.
It’s just more efficient than working those girls one-on-one. You can have an event with 10 amber girls (as you call them), and it’s just all around more efficient on a monthly basis, than working on each amber girl one-on-one.
In marketing terms it would be like funneling all of your lukewarm leads through a longer sequence instead of losing them by trying to hard sell them the moment they become a lead.
@Alek
“Social Circle Game” is not about getting laid through your existing social circle. It’s just an unfortunate name, “
Oh true, thanks for explaining I didn’t realise .
In that case no , ‘Game’ is the appropriate term for that kind of strategy . Interesting strategy as u explained it, I like the analogy to marketing,
For me I get confused at times with the use of the term ‘Game’. As there are various definitions of it,
‘Game’ to me =using strategy, influence and manipulation elements to get quicker sex from women. 🤷🏻♂️
Thinking about it recently actually, the reason I get confused with Aaron’s Stuff is that his main book has the term Game in it .
Minimal ‘Game ‘ – but to me there is hardly any ‘Game’ in the book?
It’s a bit of a misnomer for me, as it’s the most straightforward approach with basically no ‘Game’ elements. It’s almost the Anti-game approach?
Maybe “Minimal Pickup ‘ be more appropriate, 🤷🏻♂️
Btw if you are still interested I have a bit more RSD stuff to post to breakdown their scams and Tyler’s weird in field pickup demos.
Also would really love to see you break down the first few mins of your approaches and this plausible deniability frames ur using
Have u broken down here already can someone link me to a thread or blog post cheers CJ
LOL. I just thought through what I have just written re the title of the book, 😂
🤦🏻♂️
What I mean was it should be titled “No-Game Pickup” or “Anti-Game”
It says “minimal” but Is there ANY “gamey” elements to his method at all ?I can’t recall.
Strategies for picking a niche I guess.
🤷🏻♂️
Focusing on Escalation methods to me isn’t really ‘Game’ .Sleazy yeah but Game-y no.
I’m thinking more ‘mind-games’
He was just riding on the bandwagon of Game at the time to sell more books 😂 eh Sleazy ? Eh?
That scammer lol 😝
@AlekNovy
“I’ve been approaching again in the past year.”
Like cold approaching? Or within your niche? It’s just that if it’s within your niche, then it seems strange to call it approaching, since it’s more like “interacting”.
If it’s cold approaching without hitting on them, curious what the next steps are with the “leads”.
@Alek
I’ll start a new discussion here as the above is too long now.
I get what you’re saying but we don’t need to refine “Indirect Game”.
Direct Game = displaying sexual interest off the bat
Indirect Game = anything else.
The problem I have with debating you re this is that Indirect Game then is “wide open” there are X (? Quantity ) of “styles” of this,
Please be more specific as to your own personal style. Give me detail dude, I’m very interested.
Ie give me the first 5 mins of your Indirect game in approaching, blow by blow and don’t leave anything out. Like 5-8 bullet points even,
Specificity is the key to learning and I want to see what ur doing.
Thanks CJ
Ps also interesting why u said your recently approach results were “ surprising “ to you,
You are an experienced guy. Why did the results surprise you also some detail pls cheers.
Pps – I have also figured out what Tyler is doing and why his game is so “cringe” . He really is a snake, can expand if it’s of interest to you.
Does anyone want to know why Tyler’s game is so obviously cringe after 20 (?) years in the Game?
The answer may surprise you ,,,,!
Take a guess somebody…. Anybody 😆
Bet ya $50 I’m right.
So no one wants to check out Ross Jeffries “infield” ?? That’s disappointing.
Ok here’s the video again.
Go from about 15:20 and see a bit of what DeSilva says about hypnosis influencing
Then about 16 min in watch Ross Jeffries it’s only about 10 minutes this bit with RJ.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x876w0r
It’s clear to me RJ was getting some regular pussy using his SS “method”.
Now just stop and imagine (😵💫with me,right now 😵💫lol) a better looking & sexy guy using that Hypno lingo and what results he could get. 😉