Open Thread

Open Thread #117

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57 thoughts on “Open Thread #117

    1. Agree with @Old Anon

      In addition to virtue signalling, the writer is using a personal tragedy for her own gain, i.e. a notch on her writing “CV”… and advance her political point of view.

      The piece would be OK if it talked about the silent pains of mental health / depression issues.

      But she twists it into how MRA / red pill is some “evil” that exploits men.

      At least her piece made me think on this: is feminism (especially third wave feminism) a cult that preys on ‘weak’ women? It’s a nice way to shift all of your life problems and blame ‘white supremacy’ and the ‘patriarchy’.

    2. @ shaking my head

      Yes I believe that feminism preys on weak/damaged/angry women. I wrote a post about this recently that Aaron turned into an open post. I think it usually starts in college with feminists professors tapping into their anger. Coeds are feeling frustrated that they don’t have a man or children. After all, their mothers, grandmother’s, and way back for generations were already starting families at that point in their lives. These young women feel that something is off, but don’t know why at a conscious level. Modern day feminism is there to tap into that anger, and misdirect it towards patriarchy itself. Even though the patriarchy has been dead for generations. It’s not their natural maternal instincts kicking in nooooo. It’s the patriarchy making them feel miserable for not being married. It’s pretty brilliant actually.

    3. @Thread

      >>The singular focus on academic success can be emasculating, especially in a culture that has already decided brown men are not the notion of masculinity<<

      I find this ridiculous. Here in Germany "brown men" (Turks, Arabs, Nafris and so on…) are the most "masculine", aggressive and patriarchal from all the ethnicities … Every sane civilized person is afraid of them.

    4. Update: She’s been getting it on with a string of white chads since way before her brother died.

    5. >>”Westrich said that she sees many more men with height dysphoria than women. Men she’s counseled, she said, often “feel like they’re at a disadvantage. They feel like they’re not taken as seriously in terms of work environment. They feel like romantic partners don’t see them as being as attractive as they could be if they were taller,” she said.”<<

      Geez, I wonder why!?! It's not just a feeling, it's objective fact.

    6. @Whatte

      >>Check her instagram. She’s with a white chad.<<

      I don't haver an account and therefore no access…

  1. Elliott Rodger…

    I understand his pain… Elliot Rodger was ugly in Santa Barbara, imagine living in Chads area, so brutal, he was short and asian, is a turn off for a woman there. His competition was frat boys jocks, chads and brads. He was right about his situation. Of course he had mental problems, but don’t lie about his looks.

    1. He is actually quite good looking. His face is rather masculine. He also hails from a very rich family.

      It is a real tragedy.

    2. In a non-cucked culture, his father would have taken him to a brothel when he entered puberty to make him a man.

      Later he would have had some mistresses and would have lived a good life with the money from his rich family.

      But because the US is a men-hating country and cucked into oblivion, this tragedy happened.

      If you get your balls emptied once per week by a hot 20 year old who treats you like a king, you won’t think about killing random people.

    3. I think he is one of few guys that did actually have a personality problem. He had a good looking face and money, so he didn’t have any excuses not to be getting laid. He was just a social outcast with a terrible personality. Even ugly guys have friends, and from what I’ve seen, he didn’t have very many.

    4. @Assanova, completely agree. I’d like to add that his father was too busy to spend time with him, and chose a nasty bitch for a step mom. That and being mixed will warp one’s personality. Being mixed is a psychological challenge. I do think excellent parenting can overcome those challenges, but it’s difficult. My instinct is that a mixed race kid with 2 excellent parents will generally exceed a racially pure kid with one or more shit parents; however, I think it’s important to acknowledge the difficulties these Hapa types deal with.

    5. If his stepmom was a narcissistic bitch then I can see a dude being emotionally ruined by that young age. Also I think college is oversold to young men believing it is an all you can fuck buffet. A lot of guys in college lie about how much pussy they are getting and he probably believed them.

    6. But college is an all you can fuck buffet. As long as you were social, everybody got laid in college, at least where I went. That guy just never went to any parties and if he did, he never was likeable enough to be welcome to hang out when the parties started to die down; when the real action happened.

    7. An important caveat is that in order to be social you have to be above average looking. Sure, there can be good-looking guys who prefer not to be social. However, you will virtually never see an unattractive guy being the center of the party, just like you’ll never see all the dudes at the party hovering around some ugly chick. If you’re good-looking, people want to be friends with you, and from then on, things just snowball.

    8. @Assanova: are you some kind of game idiot?
      You really think for a socially awkward skinny twink nerd college is a fuck fest? Lmao. No offense but this is a ridiculous claim.

    9. And what kind of logic is that:

      “Ok so I was on the party with the cool kids and all of them got laid super easy.”

      Well, the nerds and ugly guys don’t even get invited.

      You seem to suffer from selection bias from your social circle.

      It is like a pro soccer player hanging out with other pro soccer players and girls throwing themselves at them, coming to the conclusion that girls are horny for all guys.

    10. There were non-Chads in my college social circle, and the only ones not getting laid were the bitter types that just weren’t all that fun to hang around. Not saying that they were getting laid every night, but if you were social and sought out parties, you could get laid pretty consistently if people liked having you around. This was especially true if you had frat connections or were invited to their parties through people you knew. Very different than trying to hookup with girls from nightclubs. Not sure how it is over in Europe, though.

    11. And the guys that weren’t socially involved in college just weren’t trying. You might have trouble getting into the top frat parties without the right connections, but there were plenty of parties with non-chads. All of the losers in college simply weren’t trying to be social, were the super creepy types that come off as serial killers, or didn’t know how to have a good time.

    12. The guys who were socially active weren’t really trying either. If you are above average in looks, chicks basically throw themselves at you. Of course, this is an exaggeration, but it is incredible how many opportunities you get if you are seen as attractive. I recall one of the first times I was in a club in London. I was pretty awkward. I didn’t really like the music, and I didn’t have an understanding of how clubs actually work. So, I sat down somewhere, and within a few minutes, some chick sat down right next to me, even though there was plenty of space on that sofa. She then giggled and just put her head on my lap, and smiled at me. There are all kinds of things I could have done but because I didn’t know that yet, I awkwardly caressed her face — and she quickly grabbed my hand, and began sucking on my thumb. Other examples from my awkward early club days include groups of chicks coming up to me and asking if I wanted to party with them, chicks wanting to take pictures with them, and also the occasional chick randomly grinding her ass against me. The first time this happened, I was perplexed and didn’t quite know what to do, so I stepped back. She persisted. Then she took my hands and put them on her waist.

      The upshot is that if you are a socially awkward but reasonably good-looking guy, you will have experiences a nerdy, unattractive guy can only dream off. Heck, even your typical hyper-social PUA doesn’t get a fraction of the opportunities a tall and fairly good-looking but socially awkward dude gets. Girls literally make excuses for all your perceived flaws. On that note, I got braces in my early 30s and several girls told me that I looked “cute” in them. It was downright bizarre because that is the exact opposite of what braces are. One chick even mused how it was to make out with a dude wearing braces. You can probably imagine how that interaction developed further. It escalated pretty quickly from there.

    13. I concur with Uber, your beliefs are textbook apex fallacy if you truly believe that “as long as you were social, everybody got laid in college”. I’m quite surprised you think this given what this blog is all about.

    14. Out of curiosity, of those of you saying that this isn’t true, did you live in a dorm in college? Typically, there were two types of normal-looking guys that didn’t get laid in college: Engineers that studied all the time and didn’t party, and guys that never lived in a dorm. If you weren’t an engineer studying 24/7 and lived in a dorm for at least one year, then you more than likely got laid if you were social.

    15. Even the dorm life depends on your attractiveness. I lived in student housing myself, but it was not the US dorm setup where multiple people share a room. Instead, you had your own room and a shared kitchen down the hallways. Depending on how much money you paid, shower and toilet were either on-suite or shared. I had random chicks hit on me in the kitchen or if I chilled out in the common room. Some chick I barely knew even came by my room once and asked me if I could “fix her computer”, which struck me as the beginning of a stupid porn plot. This happened even though I took my studies very seriously. Several guys who lived on the same corridor noticed that there were often women around me and they asked me for advice. Among them were two smelly pajeets and a very crass Brit. None of them was even a 5.

    16. I am not accusing you of lying about your experiences. I am merely pointing out that your beliefs are contrary to basically everyone on this blog, likely because you are under the influence of the apex fallacy (or perhaps the “just world” fallacy).

    17. @asssanova

      then you more than likely got laid if you were social.

      And theres the catch. Consider that you might be mixing up your correlations or missing a huge part.

      I’ll give you a hint. It’s like when people say “just be confident to get laid”, “confident people get laid”… not noticing that the reason they are confident in the first place is because they are attractive.

    18. It’s definitely easier if you have good looks. Just pointing out that college, at least in the US, is an entirely different ballgame. I knew guys in college who slayed, but couldn’t get a single girl on a website like Tinder. Also knew guys that did well in college, but couldn’t pick-up a girl in a nightclub if their lives depended on it. College is like playing the game on easy mode, and isn’t anywhere near as difficult as when you step outside of it.

    19. There were non-Chads in my college social circle, and the only ones not getting laid were the bitter types that just weren’t all that fun to hang around

      I used to believe this too. In fact I told stories about the guys I knew who weren’t very attractive yet had girls throwing themselves at them (due to magnetic personality).

      Well, here’s what I learned later on. All those nonchads I swore weren’t very attractive? Theres a catch.

      We as guys cant judge male faces all that well, in fact not at all. We might even think a guy jas an ugly face, whereas to women hes chadlight.

      It was after watching all the educational content produced by blackpillers that I realized oh crap… all those guys I swore were ugly yet banging hotties?

      Well those guys actually had very sexy faces. As determined by female standards.

      Being treated well by females due to your facial structure creates a positive feedback loop. And the opposite creates a negative feedback loop that manifests as bitterness.

      You might think they are treated badly due to their bitterness, not realizing they’re treated badly due to facial characteristics. Bitterness is the symptom, not the cause. It’s also a convenient excuse that attractive people use to justify mistreating unattractive people.

    20. You are making a very good point, Alek! I notice that women perceive male faces differently across all age groups. For instance, when I went to a park with my wife recently, she pointed out that some little boy who probably was at most 2 years old was not cute at all. To me, he looked like a regular boy, not special in any way. I think women just pick up on different genetic markers than men.

      Also, I recall that when I met up with various guys in the community, a comment I quite frequently got was that they don’t understand how I can get women with my face. Note that I’m not ugly by any means. Some dude even made the thinly veiled insult that I had “non-traditional looks”. Yet, the women I met quite often made remarks about my face. I even had chicks come up to me and ask me if I’m famous or some kid of actor, or that I “look familiar”. I used to think that those were simply horny chicks looking for a pretense to talk to me, yet there was more to it. One of the girls I met probably best described my face as “memorable” and another one said that my head could be on a Roman bust.

    21. Definitely not saying they were banging hotties. Just that they were getting laid. I know some guys find it hard to believe, but there are women out there that are just horny and will fuck whatever is convenient, especially when they’re in college. If you were there at the end of the night, and played your cards right, you could have sex. Was this happening at every party? No. But there were definitely nights where the numbers were in your favor, especially if you were just average-looking, and not absolutely hideous.

      I dug into my personal archives (not the ones that a guy created linked in the sidebar) and found this excerpt from March 12, 2007:

      “I bring an entourage of people home. It’s Saturday night, so the roomies shouldn’t care. I never do this during the week. And besides, I wouldn’t feel right making them drive home completely trashed. I go into my bedroom. I fuck for awhile. I get a phone call…

      Brown Sugar: “Can you tell those girls to leave? They’re being loud.”

      It’s Saturday night. It’s a weekend. And on weekends, normal college kids party. And besides, when you have a house full of women, you don’t ask them to leave, you come get your motherfucking dick wet. ”

      And during that same night at my place:

      “I would later walk back out in the front room to see Puerto Rico fucking a girl on the floor, Snoop-A-Loop making out with a girl, ”

      I can assure you that those two guys weren’t Chads. The girls I brought home were straight-up whores that would fuck any one of my friends, and there were a LOT of girls like that in college. The guy that I called Brown Sugar? An engineer that never partied and was shocked that he wasn’t getting laid in college.

    22. Probably an important aspect is the female-to-male ratio. Normally, there are many more guys in clubs than there are girls. Yet, on rare occasions have I been to parties with a surplus of women and on that occasions it certainly happens that girls can get sexually very aggressive. I once walked into a student party at a school of fine arts. A good chunk of the dudes were gay and girls outnumbered guys by a factor of four or five. Those chicks really went after you, groping you on the dance floor or shoving their tongue in your mouth as some form of greeting.

    23. I also want to point out that in college, at least in the US, the numbers are in your favor. More women than men in college here, and with people most likely to pair-up with the people in their immediate social circle, it is definitely easier to get laid in college as a non-Chad. Keep in mind that I am speaking from my time in college. No idea what the dynamics are like now.

    24. Another example from March 19, 2007:

      Cheeseman and I leave, bringing along her lesbian friend and TheBlackGuy…

      Cheeseman: “I’m not going to sleep with you, Assanova.”

      Unprovoked once again…

      Les: “Why do you keep saying that you won’t sleep with him if he hasn’t made any advances towards you?”

      Her response? I don’t know. I’m in bed, and they’re now in the living room. I then feel a thud in my bed. It’s Cheeseman, I guess she’s sleeping with me…

      Cheeseman: “Do you think they’re gonna have sex?”

      Me: “It’s a possibility. Every homosexual is straight to an extent, and visa versa.”

      Cheeseman: “Did you hear that!? That was a kiss!”

      Me: “I know!”

      That guy was below-average-looking, overweight, and was always negative. Couldn’t get laid because of it. He finally chilled out, came back with me at the right time, and he pulled a lesbian. Goes back to what I was saying about women in college sleeping with whatever is convenient.

    25. Well yes, any man can get laid if he simply lowers his standards enough, but the vast majority of men would rather jerk off forever than fuck a 1.

    26. @ Old Anon,

      The guy I roomed with was considered the Don Juan of my dorm. All he fucked we’re fat chicks and maybe a 6 or two. And I went to San Diego State University. Widely considered a top party school. I just wasn’t impressed with the whole experience.

      Like Assanova said, connections to frats matter but who are they? The richest and best looking on campus of course. And if you have a cocaine contact they will love you.

      To be fair, I did not study 24/7, but I worked 35 hours a week on top of a full load. I have to say that I enjoyed the beach parties and punk shows I went to much better than anything on campus. Much more wasted opportunities for an anti-game guy like me haha. My experiences mirrored Aaron’s first club experiences.

    27. The “Rather jerk off than sleep with 1s” comment makes me wonder how many incels are incels because they insist on women that are out of their league and how many incels are incels because all women genuinely reject them. I had a friend that was slightly above average-looking. Not ugly, but not super attractive, either, and he didn’t have a great-paying job. He hadn’t been laid in two years because he insisted on women ten years younger than him and to also be super skinny. He didn’t really bring much to the table, but he insisted that women and their standards were the issue, and not his perception of what his female equivalent was. To him, all women that weren’t super skinny and ten years younger than him were off the table and not even worth having sex with.

    28. @Assanova: obviously, if you are willing to fuck anything, it is much easier.

      But even then, there is a group of guys, I would estimate them around ~10%, who even have a hard time getting sex from fatties. Very small guys, guys with ugly faces and so on.
      A fat girl can still get a normal looking guy or even a chadlite from tinder to fuck her quite easy. It is that bad.

      I also think your college experience (and mine as well) was before tinder was a thing. But tinder (& other social media) changed the dating dynamics a lot, because girls don’t have to select guys only from their social circle anymore now.

      And it is also a little bit unfair.

      It is like me telling to a woman who says “getting a job is hard” to just work as a prostitute and suck dicks for money. If you are willing to accept any job, it is not very hard.

      If you have no standards at all, everything is easier.

      Most guys just prefer porn over having sex with ugly women.

      Now you can argue those guys are volcels instead of incels, and I would agree with that.
      (excluding the 10% group who are really fucked, even with zero standards)

    29. @Assanova:
      even if I grant you that a lot of guys could get laid more if they were more social and more likeable, there is another huge flaw in your argument:

      you assume that personality is independent of looks, and you also assume it can be changed easily.

      In reality, personality is mostly a result of your experiences and your genetics.

      Guys don’t get born as socially awkward. (unless in some rare cases like autism). What happens is, they get bullied, they get rejected from girls, and as a response to that they avoid social situations, because it makes them feel bad.
      Then they enter a negative feedback loop, because now they have even less situations to gain experience.

      On the other side, the good looking guys, get invited to a lot of parties, and girls like them, so they feel good in those situations, and they seek those situations more, so they get into a positive feedback loop.

      Your are basically mixing up cause and effect.

      You think:

      socially awkward -> no success with girls

      but it is much more like:

      no success with girls -> socially awkward

      (and also feedback loops cause the causation to go both ways as well)

    30. @Assanova:

      My answer is redundant with what Aaron and Alek already pointed out… remind myself to read everything before answering 😉

      But to sum it up, there are a lot of fallacies in your argument:

      – neglecting the halo effect (people like to be friends with good looking people)
      – mixing up cause and effect (bitterness is the result of lack of success, as Alek pointed out)
      – removing the total losers from your perception, because they are not even at the parties, therefore overestimating the success of the average guy.

    31. Definitely not disagreeing. Only pointing out that for the average guy, at least back in my day, college is a fuck fest, due to:

      1) Women vastly outnumbering men

      2) People being socially open to meeting and hanging out with strangers than they are when they leave college

      3) Women more likely to sleep with whatever is convenient at the end of the night.

      I don’t really care about why a guy is socially awkward; only that it is a big reason why he isn’t getting a chance to partake in all of this sex happening in college.

    32. Also, I recall that when I met up with various guys in the community, a comment I quite frequently got was that they don’t understand how I can get women with my face. Note that I’m not ugly by any means. Some dude even made the thinly veiled insult that I had “non-traditional looks”. Yet, the women I met quite often made remarks about my face. I even had chicks come up to me and ask me if I’m famous or some kid of actor, or that I “look familiar”.

      That’s a great example. I’ve experienced hundreds of situations where guys say “I can’t understand what girls see in him, his face isn’t very attractive”, yet the women in the group comment how that same guy’s face is very attractive.

      When I was in the PUA community I brushed off that discrepancy, as I was told that “chicks are backwards rationalizing their attraction to his personality”, “he has game, therefore they perceive his face as being attractive”.

      But just like most things in the community, that turned out to be utter anti-science. I wish the blackpillers and lookism people had come around sooner with the research into the science.

      They made all these great videos where they break down exactly which aspects of a male face make it attractive, and sexy to women. Once you see it, and understand it, you can’t unsee it. It’s the true “red pill” i.e. seeing the matrix.

      Now when I look back to guys who banged a bunch of chicks despite “not being very attractive”, I’m looking at their faces now, and I’m like… they have very attractive faces.

      One easy way to simplify this is the following

      Guys assume that the male model look is the definition of an attractive face… and it is… that is the perfect “male 10 face”.

      What guys DONT get however is that the ideal male model face is the combination of maximal “pretiness” and “sexiness”. Guys being guys only see the “pretty” part, and not the sexy part which is the bigger factor for females.

      So us guys will look at a guy who has a 9 face and say “he’s not very attractive” despite the fact he’s a 10 on the sexy features. We notice his “pretty” features being lower, and go “no idea what girls see in him, must be charisma”.

    33. @Assanova, you miss the point if you “don’t really care why a guy is socially awkward.” The only way your assertion that college is a “fuck fest” for the “average man” is true is if:

      1. Your definition of “average man” is drawn from from a subset of Chads and Chad-lites; or

      2. Your definition of “average man” is drawn from a subset of men happy to fuck really ugly women.

      @Goodlooking, I’d consider your roommate to be the court jester rather than a Don Juan.

    34. @Ubermensch is right. Everything is different now, old system of dating died. Women have endless options. Sooner even paying for prostitute will not be cheap. The problem is older don’t understand the dating market in 2021, they are living from the past success and thinking the dynamics are the same.

    35. AlekNovy, you said
      “It was after watching all the educational content produced by blackpillers that I realized oh crap… all those guys I swore were ugly yet banging hotties?”

      Could you point me in the direction of those videos. Would love to know what makes a mans face hot in the eyes of women

    36. I laugh everytime I read this ” being social ” ” don’t be bitter ” nonsense.
      Social skill are useless if you are ugly. I’m 5’8 + bald, the equation is bald + short = game over.
      No amount of social skills or nights in crowded bar can make up for my lack of height and hair.
      Even if men enjoy my company and think that I am a good friend, a optimist and a cool guy, women find me hideous and don’t want even a simple friendship with me, because I look like shit.
      Assanova has a huuuuge bias only because he is tall and goodlooking, if we put his soul in my body, tomorrow he will be an incel disliked by even old farts

    1. This reminds me of the book about the Roman empire I’m reading at the moment.
      The Romans deforested big parts of Europe (mostly for firewood).
      (before the Roman empire Europe was almost entirely covered with forests)

      Now imagine some Roman ecologist:

      “Oh my god, if we extrapolate this trend into the future, by the year 2050 there will be no more forests left and we will all freeze to death! We need to stop the deforestation now and use alternative energy sources!”


      Also love it when economists extrapolate trends 100 years into the future when they cannot even predict the next year. lol.

    2. Also what the environmentalists get totally wrong is that they assume that nature is static.

      But evolution is still going on.

      You see this with fish.

      Right now there is a big pressure for fish to become smaller and smaller. If the nets have gaps of ~10 cm, suddenly
      all the fish become less big than 10cm. (because only the small fish survive and reproduce)

      But I would bet, that the total biomass is not really changing a lot, it is just instead of one big fish, you now have 10 smaller fish

      Evolution can be very fast if there is a lot of pressure from the environment.

    3. Yeah, but pointing out problems is important otherwise no one will do something about it. Acid rains were fixed because it was pointed out and then they found a solution. You cannot say “Newspaper was wrong, forests didn’t die because of acid rains, all hoax”. Because by pointing out the problem on a mass scale it was solved in the first place.

    4. @Dude: true, but there is a difference between pointing out problems, and massive fear mongering like “omg the world is going to end in 10 years unless we do massive changes to the entire economic system”

      and with climate change, it is not even clear that there is a problem. the temperatures are going to rise a little bit, but so far no one could explain to me why exactly this will be the end of the world.
      (if you even believe this, the models on this are not very clear at all if you dig into it)

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