Open Thread

Open Thread #53

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88 thoughts on “Open Thread #53

  1. Has anyone else here quit watching porn? If so, have you noticed any effects or changes? Since quitting, I think my sexual interests have changed quite a bit, which makes me wonder how porn influenced my sexuality was/is.

    1. @Overdrive
      When I watch porn I become very interested in anal intercourse, irrumatio and MMF scenarios (no homo).
      When I abstain from porn for a while I think of those things as stupid and off-putting and have more interest in just sticking my dick in a cute girl’s pussy and cuddling for a bit afterwards.

      @Frank_HH
      Some people just can’t handle the hyperstimulation of streaming internet porn. For me personally porn consumption became dysfunctional, I would watch porn and edge (masturbate without climaxing) for many hours. My record was like 14 hours straight. I didn’t eat, just took bathroom breaks. Afterwards my genitals felt like they were run over by a car.

      I missed social events and fell behind on work I was supposed to do because of this porn obsession. I realize it’s not like that for most guys, but some people just can’t handle the stuff.

    2. @CENA
      I never had “death grip”. Even masturbating with a light grip messes up your unit if you do it for 14 hours straight.

    3. @Burt
      >>Some people just can’t handle the hyperstimulation of streaming internet porn. For me personally porn consumption became dysfunctional, I would watch porn and edge (masturbate without climaxing) for many hours. My record was like 14 hours straight. I didn’t eat, just took bathroom breaks. Afterwards my genitals felt like they were run over by a car.<<

      I know what you are talking about! ;=)

      Therefore I was quite happy that SSRIs dampened my libido ^^

    1. Schools are indoctrination camps, governments don’t want a intelligent population because a intelligent population is a threat to them and their agenda

    2. Oh stop it.
      You and your conspiracy shit.
      “Muhhh gubermint dont want smart peopleee”.

      It’s all a question of incentives. Everything you see today is a result of wring incentives.
      Democracy incentivizes parasitic behaviour and politicians getting paid tax money at above private-sector levels incentivizes low-IQ people to go into politics. The rest is just a result of the above. Your world view is unhealthy.

      Please go troll somewhere else. You remind me of Jon. Aaron blocked him at some point.

    3. I think there is more to that issue. In the West, you can certainly make the observation that the ruling elites do not seem to care about public education. They send their kids to private schools, of course expecting that their kids will eventually rule over the plebs/goys and as they only have to do what they are told, why would they need to learn how to think critically? Increasingly, state schools and even universities are used for keeping people off the street. Arguably, this also drives some of the motivation towards the radical lowering of entry barriers as there certainly are some politicians who think that if they can put Jamal and Tyrone into a university class room, they can’t use that time to sling dope or shoot each other.

    4. A human ape that gets to know the nature of our species cannot possibly come to positive conclusions. Why? Because it’s as ugly as it gets, most people are not aware of it and even when they hear something about it, they dismiss it, because it’s too hard to handle. If people got to know the truth, they would lose all interest in reproduction and all the mindless things and activities this society does to escape the void.

  2. All the history talk from the last open thread got me thinking again. Have you guys heard of the USS Liberty “incident?”

    1. Yup. It came up in the “everything is a rich man’s trick” documentary on youtube.

      Quite some nasty shit if you ask me. They knowingly attacked a friendly ship and had the nerves to ask if there were any casualties afterwords.

      Seriously, these were some sick bastards. And they still are. I don’t give a damn if I get called a collectivist, but without them and their warmongering shit, the world would be a better place.

    2. @neutralrandomthoughts Mel Gibson’s rant, but sober and unironically. I most certainly concur

  3. When they asked if there were any casualties one of the crewmembers reports that the officer in charge “gave them the social finger.”

    There were heads, limbs, and blood all over the decks.

    1. The Jews have this bizarre habit that they keep pushing and pushing, not knowing when to stop. The next backlash they get may be so strong that they get wiped out. I don’t find it implausible that Iran will just nuke Israel. All it takes is the US taking a severe hit, be it societal or economic.

    2. @Aaron right. They simply can’t boil frogs slowly enough. One hilarious example of a Jew blowing his wad too early is a Reddit thread where someone asked why porn videos have bizarre incest-themed titles even when the content doesn’t include incest. A Jew with a blue check mark twitter account who worked for pornhub commented and accused everyone in the thread of being anti Semitic. The response was that nobody said anything about Jews until the Jew showed up. This Jew’s neuroses simply got the better of him and he embarrassed himself.

    3. In the current year, it is impossible to discuss anything in which Jews are involved without being labeled anti-semitic. This can be humorous, like in your example, or have severe consequences, e.g. when entirely legitimate discussions regarding the enormous influence of high finance, get suppressed because they are labeled “anti-semitic.”

      On a side note, the boiling-the-frog-slowly story is not correct. It’s an urban myth that lives on. In reality, as I’ve learned from the collective trash heap Wikipedia, a frog would eventually jump out of the water.

    4. Very good point! Chutzpah has the unfortunate tendency of eventually biting them in the ass, though.

    5. chuzpath not really a Jewish tendency,instead it is a middle east tendency and a lot of “Jews” in Israel are from middle east. also muslim countries around israel have this same chuzpath even worse.
      Source: non middle east jewish living in israel.
      muzzies keep pushing and pushing and middle east people in general just keep pushing until they get bited.
      sure other ethnicity have it too but most prominent middle easterns

    6. This is an interesting comment. Given that chutzpah is part of a culture, we could further assume that it only works parasitic cultures. It is often said that Jews need a host nation as they do not create anything themselves. Jews seem to always need a host to feed on. On that note, some people even make a distinction between productive and speculative capitalism. The latter is parasitic in nature and was also often labeled “Jewish capitalism”. In contrast, the former is labeled “Protestant capitalism”. It could well be that chutzpah is a prime reason why those cultures never really advance. Without the backing of the United States, for instance, Israel would likely have gotten flattened already, for instance. There are millennia of history that shows that Jews eventually face a backlash.

      Of course, I am not talking about “all jews”. However, there is a long history of Jews financially exploiting the goyim, er, gentiles. This continues to this very day. Many payday loan companies are run by Jews, for instance. I vaguely recall that this industry was pioneered by Jews, as were most if not all other forms of predatory financial practices.

    7. i cant really comment on the financial sectors as my country is all jewish they get distributed to a large areas of the economy here, but on the low level and in a human to human interaction you can tell that middle easterns are much more chuzpath(translated Rude) they feel entitled as fuck.
      especially arabs muslims they are the worse.

      also about the flattening, i dont know man sure
      israel is just one country but all those third worlders
      around arent exactly shining militarily and if not for the black gold they will be in stone age.
      and their black gold ride should end in the near future.

  4. I should add that the Israelis were in a helicopter when they sent the message down. They could clearly see all of the carnage ( as they could see the stars and stripes on the ship while they shot it up). Irsaeli rescue boats were sent out and the American servicemen rejected it.
    What a FUCKING ally.

    To give credit to the Brits the BBC reported fairly on this particular moment in US history.. We hear nothing about this here in America.

    1. please use the “reply” function. it helps the “Open Thread” in particular stay somewhat structured.

      And yes. Fully agree with you cynic view.

  5. Since I’ve been getting acquainted with a few trad/reactionary fellas lately, I find it curious how we (Aaron’s regular readers) align with them in so much, yet their religious background sets them apart in a few key points. Namely pornography, prostitution, and promiscuity.

    We agree women who engage in any of those activities isn’t wife material, but they insist we as men shouldn’t either consume or participate because it’s degeneracy and sin. How do we reconcile the two positions? How do I tell them “yes, it’s great that you uphold traditional Christian values, but you need to pop your cherry if you want to avoid being charmed out of your defenses by the first pair of pretty eyes who bat their lashes for you”.

    1. I don’t necessarily see the contradiction as I don’t need to completely agree with someone else’s viewpoint. Also, there is a difference regarding how society should be run and how you should lead your life. Personally, I think men should get some sexual experience before settling down. However, to do so, we need outlets, so we could just revive one of the old systems we had in place, i.e. hookers and easy women for men to play around with. Those women would of course be undesirable for any kind of relationship, but you would find women who gravitate towards those roles as it allows them to maximize short-term rewards. Even if we had 5% of hookers who end up as spinsters we’d be fine because there surely are 5% of men we do not want to procreate, e.g. criminals and welfare leeches. On that note, I just got my hands on J.D. Unwin’s Sex and Culture, which is a study on a few dozen societies. One of his conclusions is that sexual degeneracy leads to societal collapse, while suppressing sexuality is required for a society to prosper.

    2. No “contradiction” in being allies, I know, but yes, there is one in the sense that they would ban all outlets if they could, including masturbation. I really find it hard to believe there are men out there who truly have mastered walking around with several years worth of blue balls, other than maybe monks who keep away from tempting sights (even normal priests have to endure seeing cleavage often). But trads insist it can and should be done.

      All that pent up desire can’t be healthy because it leaves you vulnerable to women’s wiles, “virginity till marriage to be closer to God’s ideal” be damned. They just haven’t swallowed that chunk of the red pill, I guess.

      I’ll have to check that book. Of course, suppression of sexuality didn’t eliminate or outlaw (until recently) the oldest profession there is (i.e. prostitution). It just kept it marginalized.

    3. @Manuel S I’m assuming you meant blue balls figuratively?

      You get blow balls from keeping an erection for too long without ejaculating. I’ve gone 60 days without ejaculating (nofap) and didn’t have any pain outside of when I tortured myself with my favorite vids and images for several hours and no intent to masturbate. The lack of ejaculating doesn’t give you blue balls on its own.

  6. @ Aaron

    The Israelis keep pushing it on the Palistinians with the expansions of the settlememts, when it would make much more sense to promote a two state solution.. Israel will eventually go down as the Jews are being out-bread.

    Jews have been exiled from almost everywhere they have resided, even Israel itself if you count the diaspora. Like greed it is destructive to the point of being self-destructive.

    I love how the media and Hollywood praise my grandparents generation as “the greatest generation.” Why? Because they defeated Hitler, of course. Then they stab them in the back for what they did after the war. Downing the 1950s patriarchy, nationalism, and anti-communism. These “bigoted” white males were the very same men who defeated Hitler for God’s sake. It’s like they use them for cannon fodder, then dispose of them like toilet paper (pretty typical of how American war veterans are treated). By today’s standards those guys would be considered Nazis themselves. What a twisted world we live in.

  7. How do you guys cope when you feel like the whole world is crazy and you are the only one who is sane?

    I am MGTOW and conservative and yet I feel agitated on a regular basis because of all the lies, charades, and incompetence that are apart of my daily life and surroundings.

    1. This is a very good question. Frankly, living in Clown World is a harrowing experience. You need pockets of sanity. Having a creative hobby would be great if you are the creative type. Otherwise, find something that occupies you and gives you meaning. Red-wine loving leftover women get cats.

      I don’t want to sugarcoat anything, though. In the end, life can be really meaningless. In the past, many men got meaning out of life by being pushed into a provider role. They just did it. Today’s man may have to find alternative sources of meaning. That you are asking this question is already a sign that you are not part of the common herd. However, the negative side is paying attention to your surroundings, which you do, can easily make you jaded and cynical.

    2. I turned to alcoholism 😉

      Im kidding, but not by much.

      Find like minded souls to chat, limit your interactions with the NPCs/sheeple to a tolerable level.

    3. idk if this is useful, but try to reframe your agitation as a test of your will. When you’re exercising, the more fatigued you are, the more benefit you’re getting. It is very tempting, for me personally, to indulge in marijuana when I get sad or frustrated. Lately, I’ve been framing the urge to get high when I get sad as a test of my will. “If I get high now, I rob myself of my gains” is what I think. Feel that agitation as fully as you can stand it when it kicks in maybe.

      If meditation gives you some relief, then great. Maybe contributing money to political prisoners who were targeted in clown world will give you some relief. Maybe joining organizations of like-minded people will give you some relief.

      Not sure if you’re American, but I found this video of some far-right activists strong arming some anarchists into making appeals to the state and private property to be quite hilarious. Maybe look these guys up?

  8. @ Old Anon

    Excellent question. The gym helps. I seriously need to take up boxing. Guys like us were born to fight. The vast majority of human history men like us had society in our hand. Now we have to bow down to authorities that run things dysfunctionally. Many high testonerone men end up in prison. Some take up martial arts to cope (as I alluded to) and some kill selves through suicide or addiction. I suggest martial arts.

  9. You guys ever seen the movie. “Rumble Fish?” I read the book in Junior High but didn’t understand it back then. I saw the movie like a year ago and was blown away.

  10. Rumble Fish was directed by Francis Ford Coppola, and stared Matt Dillon, Mickey Rourke, Dennis Hopper, Lawrence Fishburne, Nicholas Cage, and Chris Penn. By far the most underrated movie I’ve ever seen. Believe it or not you can get it free on YouTube.

    1. You’re welcome. I think it is underrated because nobody understood it. I think you have to be a man to understand it. And a certain type of man. It was SE Hinton who wrote it. The same writer as The Outsiders. Some women *some* understand us better than we understand ourselves.

    2. I watched it quite recently. I think this movie has artistic qualities, I thought it didn’t fully realize its potential as I found the lack of explaining the backstory of the biker, or at least providing him with any kind of motivation for his actions, a bit odd. Probably someone familiar with the novel has a different experience.

    3. I couldn’t understand the story at first, but there are several scenes that explain why the biker behaved the way he did. *SPOILERS* ahead. He was basically an awesome guy that was born in the wrong era. As Denis Hopper said “on the wrong side of the river.” Another scene was when the guy that played pool with him said, “that’s a deep mother fucker. You know, he’s like a prince. Like royalty in exile.” And at the end the only thing in the whole movie in color were the fish. Because they fight and fight unless they are set free. Then when his his brother set them free they didn’t fight. He essentially killed himself because he didn’t fit in to the society he was in, even though he was a awesome dude.

      I agree that they should have explained why he was so looked up to in the past, but was seen as crazy when he returned from California. And it seemed only the only people he didn’t get along with were the pet store clerk and the cop. Still, the message of quality males not fitting into a fucked up society is a great point made by the movie. Which relates to what we discussed earlier.

    4. Minor correction: at the beginning, you see rumble fish in color, as well as at the end. In addition, there is one scene where the main protagonist looks at his reflection in the window of a police car, after a key scene. This one is in color as well.

      I just don’t find the biker guy’s motivation plausible because he deliberately returned to a place in which he did not fit in. In the end, his actions led to his demise.

    1. This is very interesting. Things are really heating up. If needed, there will be false flag mass shooting in Virginia to push through legislation.

    2. You mean a white upper middle class teenager took the fully semi automatic Assault-Rifle15 ghost gun from his dad, who bought it legally through a gunshow loop hole and stored it improperly and then the kid inserted a large capacity clip and fired 30rounds per second into a class of black kids, thereby making proof of structual racism. Of course this happened in a gun free zone, which is a rare exception.

  11. Can anyone explain what the “it factor” is? It’s refered to as “je nais ce quoi.” A French term that literally translates to English as “I don’t know what.” Basically it’s a vibe that very few men have that draws people (especially women) to them. Examples of actors would be Sean Connery, Clark Gable, and Peirce Brosnan. I think it might be as simple as a handsome man that is fully aware of his looks and the power that it provides him.

    1. It’s complete b.s. Those three men are exceptionally good-looking (no homo), which is the “it factor”. It’s only due to not wanting to hurt anyone’s feelings, in this case the feelings of other men, however strange that might sound, that this is not clearly spelled out. It must be because gossip writers are often female and they don’t want to sound too shallow: “I don’t know what it is that makes him attractive. It can’t be his dashing good looks, worldwide fame, and riches. That’s impossible. Instead, it’s — teehee! — ‘je ne sais quoi’!”

    2. Why is it that women are so weird about admitting that a man’s looks matter?

      Look into the pussy cartel. Women derive much power from this.

    3. The pussy cartel sounds like an accurate description of male/female relations. I always wondered why “a woman can do anything a man can do” except initiate communication with a man she is attracted to.. There are other exceptions of course. Anything that benefited men from the patriarchal days was disposed of and everything that benefited women was strongly secured.

    4. I think if more women admitted that looks matter a lot more guys would work hard to get in shape and take better care of themselves. It’s always been obvious to me how much looks matter but it seems like a lot of guys just don’t understand that…not sure why.

    5. I agree 100% if men knew how much looks matter they would work on themselves more. As to the second point I can only speak for myself but I always thought women cared more about personality. Society tries to drive it into people’s heads. PUAs, women, and less than attractive men repeat the mantra until I believed it.

      I grew up without my dad, it was just me and my mom and 2 older sisters. I really feel like I was abused emotionally. Part of it was that my sisters didn’t want me to realise the potential I had with my looks, and they all made me feel like my personality sucked. To this day they say that I have social anxiety disorder, which I definitely don’t have. For instance I got up in front of over 100 people at my grandmother’s funeral and knocked it out of the park. My sisters were too afraid to even speak.

      Basically the vast majority of society wants us to believe that “looks don’t matter.” And I grew up with feminist rhetoric and narcissistic abuse. Not sure what the solution is, but I’m working on it here.

    6. Ah the “pussy cartel”. You can see one variation in action where the pussy cartel got some soft-core Australian mags shutdown. Story: http://archive.is/uVQWL

      Essentially, the magazine lost retailers due to complaints/lobbying about the objectification of women. This is now feminism can be bad for business!

  12. guys check out this video. Its posts from from a website where guys complain about women.

    I wonder how all these guys assume these women are attracted to them . Its as if they cant read their signals or something.

  13. What is the current best way to measure intelligence? I mean, there are different kinds of tests, Weschler, Raven’s Progressive Matrices and quite a few others.

    Is it possible to find any reliable tests online? I did a few, but the results vary by much.

    Also isn’t it that by practising doing such tests and/or reading about how this tests are designed one person can get much higher result?

    1. Any standardized IQ test should do; many standardized tests, such as the SAT or GRE, also correlate with IQ. A real IQ test is timed and done under supervision. The few online tests I have come across are not even timed.

      Because those tests are timed, the assumption is that, yes, by familiarizing yourself with the format, you are likely to do a bit better, but there is a ceiling. It’s just like in school or at university. Surely, you, and everybody else, prepared for exams. Yet, not everybody walked out with a perfect score.

    2. Yes you can improve. I had IQ testing as a part of university admission procedure. First time it was Raven’s matrices which lasted for about 45 minutes and I had slightly above average score. Then I bought bunch of IQ tests and analyzed them in great detail. My goal was to generalize the solutions into principles.

      Couple of weeks later came the test for a much more prestigious degree program. It lasted for 3 hours and was custom tailored by the university itself. It included verbal reasoning, rotations, nonverbal and numeric reasoning. Shockingly I ended up in top percentile (literally 10th place and there were slightly over one thousand applicants). The test items didn’t repeat but the underlying principles were similar.

      Such jump in test score and the fact that I’m not anywhere near that smart in reality definitely suggest that IQ tests are hackable. Funnily enough, few years later I had a conversation with the professor who was one of the test’s creators and he complained that their mega IQ test was rather poor at predicting academic performance.

    3. This does not show the full picture. Surely, there were other applicants who had prepared well but did not manage to get a stellar score. Also, if you don’t “feel smart” but do very well on tests or at work, then it’s maybe time for you to revise your self-image.

  14. Don’t you guys love how feminists fight tooth and nail to keep abortion legal on the principal of “a woman’s right to choose what she does with her body?” I’m not against legal abortion but where the fuck are these bitches on prostitution when the same principle applies? And that is something that actually is illegal in most of the Western world. If anything American feminists should be fighting that battle rather than something they got their way on 47 years ago. But they always claim they are “pro-choice” not pro-abortion. I think this example shows that they are indeed pro-abortion. I also think that prostitution is more morally justifiable than abortion.

    Putting this issue as their top priority is like if a border wall was put up 47 years ago and all of the illegal immigrants were gone, and I’m still bitching about illegal immigration .

    They probably know that it will never be outlawed again in the US but they always claim that this “sacred” right is going to be taken away. They just use it because they hate men, children, and families.

    1. “a woman’s right to choose what she does with her body?”

      The issue with that argument is that the body inside her body isn’t her body.

    2. I agree with you on that but the problem is that feminists will never see the fetus as a person (at least not in the first trimester). At that point The argument gets bogged down. The reason why I brought up prostitution is because even if you concede they are right about when life begins there argument about women’s rights blows up in their face. There is nowhere for them to go, and it exposes their hypocrisy and true intentions.

    3. Its pretty much the only freedom they would let a woman have, the rest of their positions (be it on economics, politics,. whatever) leading to some form of re-fried authoritarian marxism variant where they always know better than us plebs.

      In their minds, pro lifers are trying to humanize something that is not human (embryo, fetus), while pro-lifers argue they are trying to de-humanize something (or someONE) that is clearly a distinct biological human entity. This is the crux of the question. Thats why there is, rationally, very little room for a middle ground.

      I am not a religious person, and socially very liberal: pro gay marriage, drugs, prostitution….(I’m still in favor of gun rights btw) but on this particular topic I have long come down on the pro life side of the argument. Call me a secular pro lifer. I dont like very much being on the same side than the Catholic Church, but this is where my rationality has led me. So be it.

  15. * I should have said I am sympathetic to that position. Not that I necessarily agree. The debate about when life begins is an almost intractable one.

  16. Ran across this reddit post detailing how a man was sued (case was dismissed) for saving a drowning woman’s life (but apparently not fast enough):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ecphi/i_saved_a_girl_from_drowning_she_then_sued_me_ama/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

    It may be in every man’s best interest to look away when you see a woman in peril, as heartless as that sounds. I’ve heard of other cases, too. Of the top of my head I remember vaguely hearing about a man that stopped roadside to help a woman with repairs, and was later sued for some reason or another. Maybe someone knows what I’m referring to.

    1. There were a few stories like that. Also note that a woman pretending to need help may simply be a decoy. You stop and suddenly you’re surrounded by a gang of robbers.

  17. I was just thinking of this radio morning show I used to listen to here in San Diego to called “The Mikey Show.” Now that I look back I wonder wtf I was thinking. Anyway Mikey was by his own description a “fat, bald, Mexican.” But he claimed that he was so funny that when he talked to women “it would always work.” His fat friend on the show said he had the very same experiences given his “sense of humor.” Then they agreed to an exception of “certain” girls who would reject them immediately (what, the hot ones, Mikey?). And what does it mean “it always worked?” Getting a number? Simply making her laugh? Did you actually FUCK these girls, Mikey?

    I got sick of his overall bullshit after a while but my friend remained an avid listener for years. He told me that “girls don’t care about looks, it’s all about personality.” To be honest my friend is a weak man.

    Now that I look back not only was Mikey bald and fat, but also a pussy on many levels, a liar, even a bully and judgemental. Believe it or not many of my friends loved his show and people looked up to him. Yet another contributor to the degeneration of society.

    But eventually his show lost ratings. Mercifully he was fired years ago. Now I think he is a preacher or some shit.

  18. Woke Insanity: shorturl.at/GST15

    TLDR: Gay white moms adopt 6 black children for maximum virtue-signaling status. Massive incompetence, neglect, and abuse ensues. Ends with murder-suicide of entire family.

    1. Blame has to be placed on the legal system as well for allowing such psychopaths to have custody of these kids even after all the MASSIVE signs of abuse were there.

    2. This is the most bizarre story I have come across in a long, long time. Quite frankly, it sounds so bizarre that I would readily believe that it is a hoax.

  19. hey guys, obviously experience trumps all but i think back in the day ive lost some women due to being shitty in bed, Ive gotten better but still not where I want to be,. Any recommendations (reading or videos) on how to fuck better?

    1. I can relate. Every time I have a dry spell, it takes me quite a while to become at least decent in bed. Last time it happened, I made sure to get a FWB (not a particularly attractive one) and practiced fingering and oral on her. I still suck at oral, but my fingering skills seem to have stuck. So getting a practice girl might be helpful.

      Haven’t found any useful literature or videos though. Some stuff from tantric sex might be useful, such as erotic massages.

  20. If a girl gives out signals to you when it’s obvious that she has a boyfriend (whether she mentioned it or the dude was actually standing there) what does it mean? Are they just seeking attention? I know it can mean anything, but what does it usually mean? Or do you guys think it’s not right or worth the drama to hook up with a taken girl?

    1. It can mean a lot of things. In the worst case, she wants to provoke her boyfriend into beating you up. She’ll pick the winner either way, so it’s like in the animal kingdom. In general, if you get an aggressive vibe, don’t bother. However, if he’s just some “orbiter”, feel free to go ahead.

    2. There were actually two different scenarios where this happened yesterday. Not sure if it matters but they were both significantly younger than me (of legal age of course).

      The first one is a coworker and we talked for like 15 minutes while she was waiting for her boyfriend to pick her up. We never spoke that much before but she was very warm, not aggressive. And she gave me a hug (one armed but still a pretty close hug). The second one gave me great eye contact and even seemed to look me up and down. She was with a big Tyrone so I didn’t do shit. The first one is an 8. The second one might even be 8.5.

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