Blog reader James posted a link to a good article on involuntary men. I’ll post the link for now:
http://www.elle.com/life-love/sex-relationships/a33782/involuntary-celibacy/
I currently have a lot on my plate, so I won’t be able to write a dedicated article. As always, though, I read all comments.
I’m probably marginalizing his problem but come on, there’s a linear path between his current state and where he wants to be. His main issue is just his drive and willingness to get what he wants. He could be banging girls within a couple months max if he really truly wanted it.
As someone who was in his position 15 years ago. I can tell you that I busted my ass off for years in frustration, trying to find that path.
There is a linear path. But if nobody tells you about it, it seems like you’re being asked to jump over a mountain.
All of mainstream is full of contradictory/vague advice like “just be yourself”.
Ok, so you’re a virgin, and you go out and be yourself. Will a girl jump on your cock?
The linear path involves much information that is supressed in mainstream culture. For example nobody will tell a buy “Listen, girls are fucking lazy, and want you do all the work”, “You’ll have to hit on a bunch of girls before one says yes, you’ll rack up a lot of rejections, but that’s life”… “Oh, and the entire system lying to you that women are supposedly direct and never send mixed signals? That was built by ugly feminists to keep guys waiting for an ugly feminist to throw herself at him”.
Some guys were fortunate enough to have an uncle, cousin or other role model to pick up this stuff from. But if you don’,t you’re pretty much screwed. There is no direct path from “I’m a virgin” to “I know how to get laid”.
When was the last time you heard of ANYONE in mainstream culture explaining physical escalation?!?! EVER!?!? The only time it’s talked about is in NEGATIVE TERMS.
I remember how I was frustrated for years, because all the information I got was about what NOT TO DO. You can’t do this or it makes you a crepe. You can’t do this or it makes you a misogynist. You can’t make this move or you’re an asshole. So what the fuck am I supposed to do?
Mainstream culture/feminism says: Just wait around until somehow randomly a girl ends up on your penis.
Alek,
I completely agree. I was also blinded by all of the bs advice for a long time, and it took a shitton of band-aid pulling and disappointments (What?!???! I can’t get most girls that I’m attracted to because I’m not attractive enough?) to reach where I am now (partly thanks to Aaron).
For about 6 years I was lost in the PUA bullshit. But it was always lurking in the back of my mind that human sexuality was nowhere near as complicated as the PUAs described. Looking back, it’s so easy to see, but I can imagine how even really intelligent guys can easily get drawn into the fantasy.
All that being said, the linear path of the guy who finds pickup in my eyes is as follows, and can be found by any guy who has the will to do so:
1. Find pickup
2. Approach women
3. Realize it doesn’t work
5. Realize that guys who look good/have $$$/have talents/have friends get laid
6. Do one or more of the above
7. Profit
The fact that it took you that much time to figure it out and yet you stuck with it is a testament to your grit. Each step requires the will and drive to achieve one’s goals and persevere no matter what. Some people’s paths might be longer, and some shorter, and of course those who give up are lost forever.
Ok seriously, this guy Michael – he needs to stop hiding in that victim mode, “poor me”, lethargic state and confront his problems.
“In his immediate family, which includes his divorced parents, a sister, and a brother, his mom is the only one he talks to about his nearly nonexistent love life, and then only sparingly.”
Divorced Parents…only talks to his mother about love/sex…
He needs professional help and most certainly the visitors of his website do need it,too.
A psychiatrist needs to help him break this self imposed wall and see what the real problem is.
My guess is that he is ashamed for conflicting feelings towards his parents.
On another note:
What the heck is this statistic supposed to say?
“In the 15–24 age bracket, 27.2 percent of men and 28.6 percent of women go through life sexless”
Why do they start at 15? I don’t have stats at hand but I can hardly imagine that average loss of virginity is 15, but more like 17 in the US. Numbers would look different then.
And even if… so roughly one quarter of people between 15-24 haven’t fucked yet. So…?
Are they referring to a trend or something? Was it any different let’s say 25-50years ago? I doubt that.
Shit, I’d never thought I would be reading such an interesting article… in Elle, of all places!
That being said, I can relate to the incel feeling. It describes my teens pretty well. In particular that feeling that everyone else was getting laid at 16/17 but me, and that I was somehow missing out on all the fun. Now for payback – most 20yo girls I have been sleeping with recently (I’m in my early 30’s now) like to point out that they prefer us “older” guys because guys their own age dont know how to touch/fuck a girl properly. I used to be that guy who secretly envied older guys snatching away “our” girls… now I am THAT guy. Girls really dont mind the decade age gap hehe. Tastes like sweet revenge. 🙂 But I digress…
Back to topic, PUAs and the manosphere were not a thing back then, or if they were, I was unaware of their existence, so we had to figure things out on our own.
If I could go back in time and tell my 17yo self something, Id slap that moron in the face and recite the closing words of the article, which is possibly the most relevant sentence any reader should take away:
“Love-shy men, he writes, “need to be helped to stop excessive daydreaming and to commence living!”
If I had heard those words (and had had the balls to act on them back then, which is debatable) I would not have wasted almost a decade not knowing how to deal with women.
Current teenagers, take note please, learn from your elders.
Yeah, I was quite surprised to see this kind of article on a women’s fashion magazine. Internet is such a strange place.
Anyway, what truly drove me to share this article here was this:
“Most love-shy men,” Gilmartin writes, “would like to somehow magically bypass what many of them perceive as the cruel indignity of dating, and just somehow wake up one morning married to the esthetically lovely, beautiful girl of their dreams.”
It struck me because it was true. Everytime I whined about how lonely I was, somebody pointed out that I never made an actual effort to meet girls. Never went out, never tried to be more social and open… Always stuck in the sticky bog of insecurity and pesimism. I blamed women and their damn “pickiness”, that they only wanted male model tier guys, and an “ugly guy” like me would never ever get a girl. Even when a lot of girls actually hit on me (specially after losing a lot of weight), yet I dismissed those signals as “lucky streaks” or even denying them, believing that they were just delusions.
(Yeah… I was delusional ’bout being delusional, how fucked was that!)
But deep inside me, I didn’t want to bother to make a real effort because I was scared and lazy. I expected that everything would just happen, and a couple of times it did happen.
(Now, I think that only did more harm than benefit, since it only reinforces a passive mindset.)
I got this idea that the rise of inceldom is caused because a lot of men are raised by overbearing parents that raise their children in such way that they never face any kind of challenge or frustration. Never doing a real effort, never needing to fight for what they want, unlike many guys in developed countries that face a lot of challenge and even danger daily. So, this modern eunuchs grow up teethless, and they end up at best as alt-right raging incels; or for worse, reddit tier leftist cucks.
Interesting article, of course there is the whole manosphere bashing, some messed up timelines (pua wasn’t really a 90’s thing), and the whole, men and women are the same idea, but it gives a good insight in the whole ‘get of your ass, stop whining, and work on your life’ thing the incels/puas really need to hear.
There is of course this part:
“The woman, still petting the beagle, started teasing Michael. She’d seen him with his dog at a party a few weeks back. “Tell me the truth,” she said, leaning in conspiratorially. “How many women have you slept with because of this dog?””
“The reality, and I make no apologies for saying this, is that the modern woman is an impossible to please, shallow, superficial creature that is only attracted to shiny things, e.g. looks and money….”
That gave me a chuckle.
I’m pretty much an incel until I gave in and started pulling the trigger on below average girls that were interested in me. You want what you can’t have, until I started whore mongering and I’ve fucked a ton of girls way out of my league. I’m still trying up my status in the meantime and maybe land an avg girl at best for a fb. If that doesn’t pan out, more money for hookers. Works out
A guy, that says the following…
“The reality, and I make no apologies for saying this, is that the modern woman is an impossible to please, shallow, superficial creature that is only attracted to shiny things, e.g. looks and money….”
“I think feminism is the most destructive force in history.”
…is a knucklehead. It’s the same if someone talks about cars, fumes,..and has never driven a car.
Truth is, those proclaimed “inexperienced and shy men” are not just shy with women, they are shy and reserved with life. One day everyone has or should wake up and realize: If I want something out of it, I need to ask myself what I have to do for that. And that can be really demanding.
Interesting article. Sorta echoes those articles left wing rags (like HuffPo or Guardian or Economist) post when they do an “investigatory” piece on The Red Pill community.
When I type in ‘incel’ in Google, i see a bunch of blogs from inceller dwellers.
In the end, “it’s the fault of men for being incel, right? Red Pill is misogynist…” <>
Hey reminds me a bit of the fat chicks, that want to have top shelf men but bring nothing to the table themselves. There is a reason when you feel like you’re not enough: YOU ARE NOT ENOUGH.
Clearly you have never heard of imposter syndrome or the Dunning-Kruger-Effekt. In regards to the last statement about not being enough.
Involuntary celibate? More like choosing to be celibate. How are you gonna spend all your free time on some website focusing your energy into whining about how much of an unlovable loser you are? Then it talks about how the guy works in a grocery store or something. What if he had spent all that time instead figuring out a way to make a decent living, exercising and learning/enjoying hobbies? Maybe none of that stuff ends up getting you laid either, but at least he wouldn’t be wallowing in the fact that he’s not.
Idk.
Disclaimer: Maybe I’ll get some flak here, but I think he has a point. First, let me say, of course, he wallows in self-pity. And, of course, he has it rough because he is a not too attractive, artsy guy with a non-decent job and bad social skills. And of course he is hindered by his strange cognitive dissonance about women. /Disclaimer
At the core of this story I see a man who was told a story how women were: caring, nurturing, if interested they would make a move. A man who was told, what women like in courtship: be polite, don’t be “aggressive”, don’t be pushy, don’t grab her tits and ass, make sure she’s 100 % ready etc. And who then stumbled upon the real world, where today’s women seem to be even more passive than in the 50s and just expect you to a) read her mind and b) be aggressive and assertive and grab her titties if she wants you to. And who only favour the bold. [1]
In the 50s women would “lose” handkerchiefs for you to pick up. Or they might have let you know that there might be a free slot on her dance card. Today women just whore themselves up in general with shiny things and a lot of bare skin, hoping Mr. Right will pick up the scent. But just because she wears a whore’s uniform doesn’t mean she is one (I borrowed that from someone) and of course it doesn’t mean that Mr. Notright might take a peek. How dare you Mr. Notright! How dare you!
All of this is accompanied by a societal belief that men are vile sex demons whereas women are pure angels who would never cheat or have sex without romantic love, because the latter purifies sex and washes away its sinfulness.
[1] One comparison I have for this is asking for nudes. If you don’t ask you won’t get any. Ever. If you do ask, sometimes repeatetly and the following times even more assertive than the first time, you might be in for a surprise when your phone blows up with a lot of raunchy pictures. And videos. And very graphic videos. Because (and I Paraphrase): “I like yo fat ass, your ass damn fine.”
Good comment.
This reminded me a ton of my junior years in college. The comment about a lot of guys waiting to wake up next to the woman of their dreams describes me and a lot of other guys I knew to a T. The problem is there is so little in terms of practical advice for guys who are not born with great looks or a lot of social proficiency. A lot of guys just end up “nerding out” and bitching about how women only like assholes or whatever, while following facile advice like “just be yourself”. Moving beyond this, a lot of guys might try to follow conventional advice and try to model yourself like the protagonist in a romantic comedy. If you try to find an alternative approach, you will likely end up in the PUA subculture where you are likely to end up more screwed up in the head than when you went in. A lot of PUAs might not be too active, their theories have permeated the internet, and you will find huge numbers of guys focusing on trying to learn “Game” as their primary solution to their woman issues.
The practical solutions are not necessarily that marketable because improving yourself is bloody hard work, and there are not a lot of texts on the basic mechanics of identifying interest or escalating.
“The problem is there is so little in terms of practical advice for guys who are not born with great looks or a lot of social proficiency.”
There is. Or there was.
A long time ago, there was the old “ask her out”. Of course, it’s easier if you already know each other a little bit.
A long time ago, there was the old “just say ‘hi’ to her”. You can’t ask her out if you don’t even know her.
Unfortunately, those were perfect for the simpler old times without all this “strong independent womyn” BS.
About the “great looks” part, I believe it or not, most women are more forgiving than you think. Yes, they get wet watching Magic Mike and 50SoG and all that shit that would make a guy cringe. But only a real deluded dumbshit would actually wait to be hit only by male-model tier guys while being a fugly bitch. Besides, most girls are pretty insecure about their looks (that’s why the cover up themselves in make up). I’ve seen really cute girls get married with guys who look like they’ve just got released from jail. I’ve seen guys with acne getting hot girls, just because they kept pushing and pusuing (one of those girls was my crush… At the time it was truly depressing ’cause in hindsight she was actually quite into me, but I never dared to approach, meh). Also, girls have different tastes. A guy who’s a 7 for X girl can be a 4 for Y girl.
“A lot of guys just end up “nerding out” and bitching about how women only like assholes or whatever, while following facile advice like “just be yourself”.
“Just be yourself” is a useless piece of shitty advice since lacks any explanation or context.
You know why alcohol is great? Because it releases your inhibitions. You just stop giving a fuck. Guys who are both socially successful and fuck tons of girls don’t censor themselves all the time and don’t seek approval for what they want. They just do shit. That means “be yourself”. Of course, if you’re a fatass, get fit. Not because if will make girls go wet, but because being fat is unhealthy.
and there are not a lot of texts on the basic mechanics of identifying interest or escalating.
1.- go out there
2.- meet people
3.- meet girls, tons of them, TONS
4.- hit on those you like or those that may be interested in you (and reach the minimum level of fuckability)
5.- ask them out
6.- escalate no matter if you are scared
7.- ????
8.- fuck her
That IS the mainstream advice. It’s opposite of the PUA shit (which over-complicates). This advice over-simplifies. Which is just as bad.
That’s why I said it was ok for ye olde tymes.