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The dating market in Shanghai seems to be difficult for women who only bring looks to the table:
Hoe_Math explains the issue of “Body Count” very well here. provided the women are willing to listen.
Tbh, even if a girl only had 1 body count/boyfriend, if she was cheating on him with the intention of replacing him with you, would that be enough to make you distrust her? (for a relationship)
When I encountered this in college, it certainly was enough for me. This was when I was more “innocent” about the nature of women and I thought she just wanted a temporary side dick. (I was looking at it from the perspective of a man)
The fact that she was willing to throw away a guy that essentially did everything for her definitely disturbed me at the time.
Hey Aaron,
Been lurking around this blog from quite some time, i find it amazing & full of valuable wisdom.
I’m a 40 yo recently divorced sucker after a 12 year marriage with no kids – I’d be humbled and appreciative if you could point me in the right direction regarding getting some more women in my life.
I’ve had a few women in my bed until i got married but i was young then – all of them just threw themselves at me so basically low(none) rejection – I have never in my life needed to approach dozens of women to get sex – hell I was the one getting hit on and with no effort I’d fcuk them – I mean really no talk beyond “wanna fcuk?!” and “logistics”- maybe I’m to imbibed with my looks – a pale skinned – chestnut haired soon grayed haired, green/gray eyed guy, 5’10”- 5’11”, now cheeseburger fat 🙂 – basically a germanic/scandinavian look in south-eastern Europe due to my ancestry. And without much talk i basically said I want to fcuk them and ask about place & their schedule, that’s about it.
I really hope I don’t need to do “practice” approaches or approach for the “journey” or “experience”. In my book sex is natural and no effort. I’ve never put any effort into it I just asked and it was given…I’m ok with few rejections but not tens or hundreds…I’d better pay whores instead of getting shot down…I’m ok paying girls to ####! me but why should i ….i get enough indirect invitations [(IOIs)hate this acronym] it’s just an undescrible feeling …few per day if I get out and not be in a shitty state of mind ….
Now I’m older, the women whom I sense I have a chance with (I can read body language[me thinks]) are also older. I think I can “read” the body language of a women that likes me before I even approach her, although I sometimes mistake social, niceness with sexual interest, but depending on the context I can have a clear idea of what’s going on. Like women walking nonchalantly annoyingly around me, trying to make eye contact & smiling, brushing their hair when I only try to catch the metro/bus/tram late at night — it’s obvious what their plan for the night is…but most of the time I’m to tiered or mentally preoccupied by daily concerns to take action.
Every time I go out with “business” at night I get some sort of this, daytime too, when I look at women …hell fk I even was insulted by a (to old milf)woman for not approaching her (you asshole)…we were at a crosswalk red light she bumped in front of me and I backed behind her and she shouted “asshole!” … I may be delusional but to many instances of this kind happened to think this is invalid….
I don’t think this direct “style” of approach works anymore. (Crass and with clear intent stated right of the bat) Maybe I’m wrong or too pussy to figure out for myself?
I really dislike small talk & because of that I’m not very good at it, I’m a technical guy working in the tech repair world, my speaking style is very on point. (I like to think :P) I don’t really want to waste time bantering or flirting, pretending to be something I’m not….i’m older and not very inclined to be enthusiastic/charismatic/smiley in my approaches … I’d feel unnatural if I even attempt to do this.
What shall i do? start smalltalk/flirting/smiley lessons at 40? continue being direct?
I’m not a fan of getting-to-know each other, i really don’t care about their life story in the beginning, after sleeping with them it’s (almost)all revealed. I’ve slept with a girl and I noticed something weird about her eyes and asked what’s wrong, she told me she has epilepsy…which of course I sensed before she even told me…
I really don’t know what to do. I’m old now, I really don’t feel I have much time – I want to live the (sex)life I could’ve if I didn’t marry….at least a crumb… in terms of diversity– it was a great marriage tbh, sex was plenty or even excessive, otherwise I’d probably just moved on but it lasted up to the point I just got bored so she did.
I may sound like a thug or like a horrible person – I’m not, I sometimes think I’m to kind and compassionate than i have to be.
My life circumstances put me in a position where i had to take care of few sick family members, some with dementia or with terminal illness – this really upped my empathy for people in general, but I think it made me seem weak, soft talking (because it’s the most compassionate and considerate style/way to engage with sick, vulnerable, hopeless people) – I just had to make those people feel comfortable and hopeful in my presence. Because of the many years I was demanded to take care of them, it really affected my demeanor – made it softer than average…
I just hate talking about things I don’t find “interesting or productive”, so I’m not interested in “getting to know her” – I already know, I preselected her by the way she’s caring herself , her conduit, her clothing & her body language towards me and I think I know if I have a chance with her – if I like her or not– siht I’m 40yo she is 30yo that’s at least 70 y combined – how the fk can I know her or her know me in a decent amount of time – so let’s just fcuk mate….
[redundant & verbose description but may help you figure out my level]
P.S. my english sux sorry – because of this, and my rumbling, my inquiry may sound more crass & disrespectful than it really is.
P.S.1. What happened to your forum? how can I get access to it? & also your older posts seem to be gone, despite them being a treasure of knowledge.
That’s a lot to ask, kind regards. Chris.
TLDR: Do you guys think it makes sense to be verbally upfront with chicks for either ethical or practical reasons (e.g. reduce drama)? Please explain how you usually handle this.
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When you first meet a chick do you tell her upfront *with words* that it’s just about sex for you? If not, then when do you tell her? I want to explore the ethical as well as practical aspects of this and I solicit everyone’s comments and experiences.
For me, there are two scenarios: fuck buddy and situationship. The fuck buddy scenario is more “extreme,” so let’s start with that one.
** Fuck Buddies **
There are chicks I’d fuck if it’s easy enough – these are my fuck buddy (FB) candidates. Get together, fuck, go home – this is what I want with these chicks. Do I tell them this? With words? Or just with my actions?
* Option 1: Tell Her With Words *
If I tell her with words up front, like on a date, what are the pros and cons?
PRO: She technically voids her right to complain and cause drama. So when you ask her to leave your apartment, the chance of drama is reduced (not eliminated). If she agrees, it’s pretty smooth sailing from here, unless or until she changes her mind.
PRO: She may be playing for a relationship, but if you tell her upfront that all you want is FB (or however you put it), then you force her to either accelerate her timeline to fucking or eject. Either way you’re saving time and effort.
Even when she’s wanting FB, she may act like she is looking for a relationship (plausible deniability). Verbalizing that you want FB helps her to just agree. One caveat is that even for FB relationships chicks need to be sufficiently comfortable with you, which may take a bit of time (varies from chick to chick).
CON: She may not be able to admit to you or herself that she’d go for an FB relationship, but would have actually gone for it if you’d kept your mouth shut. Now that you’ve verbalized it, she can’t psychologically accept it, so you lose out on a chick that you could have got as a FB. This is seems more theoretical. What are your thoughts and experiences?
PRO: By telling her, I am doing the (supposedly) ethical thing and I alleviate my guilty conscience. But should I even have a guilty conscience?
* Option 2: Tell Her With Actions, Not Words *
I don’t have to tell her with words, I can tell her with actions. I can physically escalate the interaction, say over the course of a couple of dates and lead things to being alone with her where we can have sex. From this she is supposed to get the message on some level that I’m a fuck boi. There is a “vibe” to the seduction that kind of dictates that this is just FB.
But since I’d do the escalation even if I was looking for a relationship, perhaps only slightly less aggressively, the main difference would be my actions after sex. Instead of lingering and being all lovey-dovey I might hang out for just a bit and politely leave. Just say that I’ve got to get going. If she’s at my place, then I’d politely ask her to leave by saying something like “I had a good time and now I’ve got something to do.” I’m setting a precedent and communicating FB intent with actions.
Since the realization is hitting her after sex, she may feel hurt or disappointed or any number of things at this point. There may be some drama, even tears. Ultimately though, she’ll most likely get the message. Having set the precedent, this is now the expected pattern should she continue to see me.
** Would it have been better to state FB intent with words upfront and save myself the potential drama? Have I been unethical? Should I feel shitty? **
This part does sometimes feel kind of shitty, like maybe I’ve done something wrong, but it raises a question: If a man is seeking only to have sex with a woman, is he ethically obliged to inform her up front? If you say yes, you’re in the relationship by default camp. If you say no, you are in the relationship only if we agree to it camp.
Why should we privilege the relationship by default stance?
You sometimes hear that the man is required to inform the woman that he’s only interested in sex, so that he doesn’t waste her time. But isn’t this more or less equivalent to requiring the woman to inform the man that she is only considering him for a long-term relationship, so that she doesn’t waste his time (as he may only be interested in sex)? These two stances seem symmetrical.
** So is it just societal expectation that makes me feel bad in this scenario? Isn’t it her job to not give up the sex if the price is a relationship? There *are* chicks that will slow you down or even eject if they see you’re just trying to fuck them. Similarly, if a guy keeps investing in a chick and she keeps withholding sex, it’s the guy’s job to limit his investment and eject. **
So I’ve had sex with my FB and now I’m leaving or asking her to leave. At this point some chicks may blurt out “so what are we?” or “can I be your girlfriend?” Do I tell her now or just delay? If I tell her that I’m looking for “casual,” I am again at risk of losing her. She may develop buyer’s remorse and choose to not see me again. If she continues to see me, then all is well for as long as it lasts.
If I keep up the delaying tactics by saying something like “it’s too early to talk about that, anyway I have some things that I have to take care of now.” I’m giving her some sliver of hope that maybe in the future this will grow into something more serious (and I guess you never know, but that isn’t my intention).
I’m hoping that as we continue to have sex she’ll grow more attached and become more open to accepting my terms. Eventually I’ll have to tell her that I’m looking for casual/FB, but I’m hoping that by this point she’s considerably more open to my terms.
** Is it wrong to use these types of delaying tactics? Is the guy required to tell her how he sees things? Or is it *her* responsibility to insist that this be a relationship or she’s out? **
This is analogous to chicks delaying sex, hoping that if *the guy* sticks it out, *he* be more agreeable to *her* terms – a committed relationship. Are chicks ethically obliged to tell guys that they’ll only have sex with after a minimum of 10 dates and $X spent on them?
Plenty of chicks eject without having sex or at least won’t continue having sex, so why don’t we hold the other chicks to the same standard? Again, don’t we tell guys to cut their losses with girls who aren’t into them? Like when guys go on date after date with chicks or just hang out with them in the friend zone without ever having sex.
Are the chicks being unethical in this case? Do we require them to either have sex with the guy or tell him: “Listen, I’m happy to keep hanging out, but we’re never having sex.”
** Sitationship **
Chicks who are some combination of hot enough and reasonably pleasant, I would consider them for a “relationship.” I mean a casual relationship or a “situationship”: a romantic or sexual relationship that is not considered to be formal or established.
It’s far from the happily ever after, meeting her parents, getting married, but it is more than FB. Compared to FB, I’m giving more of myself to the chick. Like sometimes we go out on dates and stuff. Theoretically, I don’t rule out the possibility that I might finally commit to this chick, but I’m *really* not looking for that.
I want to have my cake and eat it too: I get love and companionship and great sex, without commitment and monogamy. This “have my cake and eat it too” is how chicks will typically frame it. For them the price for love, companionship and sex is supposed to be commitment (provided that’s what they want right now).
This may make sense pre birthcontrol, but does it still make sense when there is minimal risk of pregnancy? Psychologically it doesn’t matter because our deeper psychology still operates as if sex = babies = need for paternal investment, else he’s having his cake and eating it too.
Similar to the FB situation above, am I supposed to tell her with words “hey, I’m looking for a stiuationship?” Is it worse because I give her more of a hope since I give more of yourself, and she falls harder in love, so I end up “wasting more of her time?” Sounds ridiculous, but I’m open to other opinions.
What do you guys think? I am curious to hear your thoughts both from the ethical and practical point of view.
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So, do you guys think it makes sense to be verbally upfront with chicks for either ethical or practical reasons (e.g. reduce drama)? Please explain how you usually handle this.
Both FB and casual relationships and situationships eventually lead to escalating drama where she expresses her dissatisfaction with the status quo, nags, etc. This is happens most of the time, in my experience. So long as the level of drama is below some threshold, it is acceptable. Once this threshold is exceeded, it’s time to move on.
GMoney, i think your post is intended towards me, thank you for taking the time to distill my rambling into something more digestible, it’s something i couldn’t do with my level of english & my current state of mind, your reply it’s an eye opening essay, although it sounds generic to me and missing some of the personal insights given in my post.
My main point is:
I’m a mature guy, i don’t have time and will to learn new things, i’m not willing to be to social and enthusiastic in my approaches, injecting enthusiasm and flirting seems to weird for me and inappropriate given my/their age, all i can do now is be crass & direct.
My main reservation is probably fear of rejection and effectiveness, i really don’t want to waste time and energy on stupid things.
Constructive criticism towards my ideas and believes is deeply appreciated.
@Cris
My post was not directed at you or intended as a reply to you. It is a standalone post, and something that’s been on my mind.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/1jw9ytn/has_bjj_hurt_your_personal_life_or_relationships/
I wonder if Combat Sports and the Gym can be a convenient “excuse” to give a girl for not wanting to enter a relationship with her.
“The gym and training take up all my time…I don’t have time for relationships!”
haha.
@GMoney
It felt somehow convergent with what i wrote. Anyway feel free, if you can, to adress my post. I like your concise style!