Open Thread

Open Thread 2018 (#15)

The Open Thread is a place for open discussion among my readers. Post anything you feel like sharing! From now on, the Open Thread will no longer be monthly. Instead, there will be a new Open Thread whenever it is adequate. The stage is yours. Go ahead! Note that there is also an Open Thread on Aaron S. Elias’s site.

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72 thoughts on “Open Thread 2018 (#15)

  1. We’ve discussed this before, and I was mentionioning there’s plenty of data younger generations are having less and less and less sex. Here’s an article about some new research saying the same thing.

    Btw, this is pretty unanimous… it’s not like study methodology or whatever. Nobody is finding anything different than this. People are having sex later and later, staying a virgin for longer and longer…etc…

  2. Your thoughts about Robert Greene book ”The Art Of Seduction” – He said looks dont matter.

    And what do you think about Robert Greene

    1. Tayob,

      You’ve been asking about this book for a year and a half now. I think Aaron has made his view quite clear: anyone who says looks don’t matter doesn’t know what they are talking about, to summarize.

      There are also scientific studies showing that looks matter. If you were to go to a scientist who’s actually active in the field and asked them if it’s true that looks don’t matter, they’d probably react about the same way a professor of physics would react if you asked them if it’s true that gravity is a scam.

      “Looks don’t matter” is not an opinion any informed person would hold.

    2. Also there’s a problem with that phase in terms of specifity. What does “don’t matter” mean exactly?

      Does it mean that two men being equal in every possible way (except looks) would get the same exact result if they approach a 100 women in the exact same way and ask for a date in the exact same way?

      Obviously not. Robert Greene wouldn’t accept such a foolish claim. Obviously the two men in this experiment would get different results.

      What looks “don’t matter” can mean is that they’re not the deciding/main factor in certain contexts for certain goals.

      And that’s a bigger discussion with lots of subtleties and qualifiers and we’ve tackled all of them over the years on here. Including with great bits of science and research and distinctions that matter.

    3. You need to read “The Art of Seduction” by Robert Greene.

      Seriously, You can seduce anyone.

      You are coping. Looks don’t matter.

    4. There is a principle in the theory of science: the stronger the claim, the stronger the proof has to be. That looks do not matter is an utterly outlandish claim. Yet, there has been no proof.

      You should also know that the burden of proof is on the claimant. If you claim that looks do not matter but we do not believe you, it is up to you to convince us. It may surprise you, but the statement, “Robert Green says so” does not hold an awful lot of weight.

    5. “Seduction is a game of psychology, not beauty, and it is within the grasp of any person to become a master at the game. All that is required is that you look at the world differently, through the eyes of a seducer.”

      “What will seduce a person is the effort we expend on their behalf, showing how much we care, how much they are worth.”

      “Seducers take pleasure in performing and are not weighed down by their identity, or by some need to be themselves, or to be natural.”

      Robert Greene

    6. “What will seduce a person is the effort we expend on their behalf, showing how much we care, how much they are worth.” – seems to me that Robert Green proposes that men should try to buy women’s affection with dinners, romantic picnics, vacations, fine gifts, playing guitar beneath her bedroom window, etc.

      If a woman fucks a guy because he gives her stuff it is prostitution, not seduction.
      If she is truly attracted to the man, all those efforts are just a bonus – she may very well sleep with the guy even if he gives her nothing but 10-30 minutes of flirting.

    7. Women happily have sex with total strangers after a few minutes if they are slutty enough and the guy is tickling her fancy.

    8. @Cena

      Unfortunately sometimes the difference between Puatards and trolls is very slight. Almost indistinguishable. While Tayob here has in fact crossed a line beyond which it’s obvious he’s just trolling for the giggles…

      You’d be surprised how similar he is to an actual puatard. Almost 99% the same.

    9. Robert Greene is smart. He wrote “The 48 Laws of Power”, he knows everything about human nature, everything about Power, Seduction and Strategies. You guys are coping, looks don’t matter.

      Even Casanova was ugly.

    10. According to Wikipedia, she is known for “feminist films”. She’s quite a catch indeed.

  3. Aaron, I came across a book by Titus Geber, and I’m currently reading it.
    I think you will like it. It’s both available in German and in English. Gebel writes about new concepts of states, private cities, that compete with their offering for the money of citizens.

    “Freie Privatstädte: Mehr Wettbewerb im wichtigsten Markt der Welt ”
    “Free Private Cities: Making Governments Compete For You”

    Here a little excerpt:
    “Vernunft kann nicht gegen Moral bestehen, wenn die Mehrheit entscheidet. Daher rührt auch das intellektuell zunehmend schwächere Politikpersonal: Es bedarf weder der Berufserfahrung noch des Fachwissens, wenn Moral das wesentliche Kriterium ist. In der Politik demokratischer Staaten müssen zu Friedenszeiten zudem keine messbaren Ergebnisse erzielt werden, der Eindruck von entschlossenem Handeln reicht aus. Daher zieht dieses Metier mediokre, aber machtbewusste oder gar psychopathische Blender überproportional an. Woanders, etwa in Wirtschaft oder Wissenschaft, hätten diese aus Mangel an Fähigkeiten keine entsprechend große Machtchance. Die wichtigste Eigenschaft neben dem Ausschalten innerparteilicher Konkurrenten nach den hergebrachten Regeln Machiavellis ist die Fähigkeit, auch noch die gröbsten Unterlassungen und Fehlleistungen als von moralischen Motiven getragen erscheinen zu lassen. Die Moral wiederum ist ein beliebig gestaltbares Übereinkunftssystem, das von denen verändert werden kann, die über soziale Ächtung oder Anerkennung entscheiden, allen voran die Massenmedien. Dabei fallen für Interessengruppen, die sich auf aktuell populäre Moralgesichts- punkte berufen, Subventionen oder Sonderrechte ab. In einem solchen Gesinnungssystem ergreift schließlich jeder, der zu keinen besonderen Leistungen fähig oder willens ist, die Gelegenheit, mittels empört-moralisierendem Gehabe Posten, Geld und Prestige abzugreifen. Als Zugabe gibt es den Seelenfrieden des moralisch überlegenen Menschen. ​Wie kann man erwarten, dass die Minderbegabten und Schwätzer diese Gelegenheit nicht beim Schopfe packen? Geschickte Politiker regieren mit ihnen. Wollen sie an der Macht bleiben, müssen sie den jeweiligen, sich bisweilen widersprechenden, Moralideen folgen und die Ordnung im Sinne des Überbietungs- und Empörungswettbewerbs immer weiter in Richtung Gleichheit für alle entwickeln. Dadurch verengt sich die Welt des Sagbaren und Zulässigen schließlich bis hin zur Entrechtung all derer, die anderen irgendetwas voraushaben oder eine andere Auffassung vertreten. Das Endresultat ist eine jakobinische Gesinnungsdiktatur. Dann wird die Zeit wieder reif für einen Napoleon. ​Die Schwächen der Demokratie sind mithin offensichtlich; jedenfalls für den, der sehen will.”

    1. I’ll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation. Just to add, the English translation of Titus Gebel’s book is “Free Private Cities: Making Governments Compete for You”.

  4. My top PUA, the best of the world:

    BadBoy (Daniel Messe from Croatia) (TOP)

    Richard La Ruina (Gambler)
    Kezia Noble
    Mystery (Erik Von Markovik)
    Rob Beckstar
    Style (Neils Strauss)
    Jason Capital
    Adam Lyons
    Tyler (From RSD)
    Julien Blanc (From RSD)
    Luke (From RSD)
    Nick Kho (BIG PAPA from RSD)
    Tom Torero (Badass Hustler)
    Paul Janka
    Troy Francis (Real Troy Francis)
    Brett Maverick
    Johnny Berba

    And… Robert Greene “The Art of Seduction”

    They are the best, they helped me so much.

    In the end, Looks don’t matter!

    It’s all about game, body language, confidence, charisma.

    Looks don’t matter! Stop coping. We are social animals.

    1. I got more lays than all these together and I have a low double digit lay count.
      That’s what’s up.

      Now, please go troll somewhere else. Knowing Aaron, his patience will be relatively limited with BS like yours.

    2. Looks don’t matter?
      You’re trying to say that hot girl’s don’t immediately swipe when they see a ugly guy on tinder? If looks didn’t matter they would read the profile first don’t you think? Looks do matter. So does money, social status, power. Sexual market value isn’t determined by one factor. To claim that it’s all about game is just wrong. Good social skills can increase your sexual market value. But it can only take you so far. There are plenty good looking guys without any social skills or money fucking around. There are no ugly guys without any social skills or money fucking around. Conclusion, looks do matter. Otherwise there would be a equal distribution of ugly and good looking guys banging hot chicks. This is specially the case with young guys. Before money becomes a issue. But that’s not how it is. Guys without looks, money or fame don’t get laid that much. Not even with average looking girls. They can forget hitting on hot girl’s. That could even possibly end in prison these days.

    3. Tayob, I’ve enjoyed this little flashback. For some, it seems that the PUA delusion is alive and kicking. However, I have had enough of you now. You have been banned.

    4. I’m trolling.

      I hate pua, they scam me. I lost a lot of money because of them.

      Now i understand the SMV

      I have ressentment.

    5. You are welcome to share your experience of how you got scammed by PUAs. Any future nonsense post from you will not be published, however.

    6. I read your books. Minimal game and club game.

      About Robert Greene’s books, the best are “The 48 Laws of Power and 33 Strategies of War”, skip the rest, “The Art of Seduction” is delusional.

    7. She’s going all out. In addition to a thick layer of makeup, she uses an excessive amount of lighting and also blurs the video, all in an attempt to hide the fact that she’s in granny age. She wasn’t even attractive when she was young (look at that chin!), but now she’s at the level of those trashy old single ladies in the dive bar.

    8. My english is poor, but i will try to explain.

      In 2016 i payed 13,000€ for 3 days in Zagreb, Croatia, the pua was Badboy, i wasnt getting laid, and Badboy says is my fault, i was not talking the right thinks to the girls, he teach me how to scalate girls and after that we go out to the bar and i got laid, a blonde girls was flirting me, after the sex with that hot blonde girl, in hotel, i saw the girl messaging to badboy, was a scam, the girl was a striper.

      The funny thing is, badboy told me that, We men choose girls, girls don’t choose men! LOL

      Badboy Lifestyle is still running online.

      Poor guys.

      It’s not something you said or didnt said, its not about game, body language or confidence. Its all about looks.

    9. What made you pay 13k in the first place? Just think about the number of Croatian hookers you could bang with it. Heck, you probably could have sex with a significant percentage of all prostitutes in that country with it. I’m not mocking you. I’m merely pointing out a fact.

    10. I was desperate.

      But banging hooker is not the same thing than having sex for free with chemistry.

      Thanks to you and Face And LMS, now i know, i’m ugly, girls don’t like asian guys, i’m indian.

      I don’t have chiseled jawline and lean face. It’s Game Over for me.

  5. “she uses an excessive amount of lighting and also blurs the video,”

    I never paid attention to those kind of details. Thanks for making me aware, very interesting.

  6. Kezia Noble is supposedly 36 if you Google her name, but there’s no source, so who knows?

    Regarding her attractiveness: I don’t think it was ever her face that drew any man in, heh. Her best features are her breasts, and she seems pretty aware of it, considering the effort she puts into push-up and cleavage.

    1. She must have been 36 for a decade then. I bumped into her in person in London back in the days and even then I thought that she was well past her prime.

  7. People really don’t seem to understand balance. Looks matter, Money Matters, Your Confidence and Seductive ability matter. If a girl likes your Look she will often initiate an approach and depending on the context sometimes even something more sluttier.

  8. Aaron, what do you think about Dale Carnegie’s book “How to Win Friends and Influence People”? Is a book for nice guys, cuckolds, doormat? Right?

  9. Guys, tell me more about hiring escorts specifically while traveling abroad?

    I am traveling to Western Europe soon and will cover most the countries in the region over a span of just under three months. I want to taste hot women of all the countries there. I don’t feel like unpaid sex is best because its a lot of hit and miss. I don’t have time for that. Besides, the woman is supposed to have my pleasure in mind when I pay her than when I don’t.

    How do I go about this and do so correctly? I am thinking of hiring an agency. How would you do it if you were me?

    1. @Don: Should you stay in a hotel near Amsterdam call this number (0206364083). They are not cheap. But they do have really hot girls working for them. Just tell the guy what you’re looking for. You can get laid much cheaper in Amsterdam. But this guy really has some ridiculously hot girls working for him. Mostly from Eastern Europe. But all speak good english. Just dont play stupid games with these guys. They are very professional and 100 legal. But they don’t take crap. Just be vriendly towards the girls and you should have a great time. I never had any trouble with them. And the girls were all 9s and even tens. I just ask for girl early 20s with pretty face and hot body. Always great girls. Never had lower than a 9. About 320-360 euro for two hours. Inside Amsterdam cheaper than outside. And more hours, cheaper per hour. Ask price on the phone. When girl comes pay immediately when inside. Make little talk and be polite and offer drink first. These are not your average ho’s. She’ll give you a great time.

    2. @Neutralrandomthoughts: Their website is bullshit. Just like all other websites. There is another Dutch website were both amateur hookers and businesses advertise. ( ) Some advertisements are genuine and honest. But it’s like flipping a coin. Most pictures are fake or photoshoped. Just like your average dating website. Some advertisements are in Dutch others in English. But don’t be surprised when instead of a 22yo hot girl. You’ll get a 32 yo average looking woman. I wouldn’t look at escort there. Better look for girls who receive at their place. That way you can always just walk away. Without having a hooker making drama in the hotel lobby. Or you can just visit Amsterdams red light district. If you just want to get laid that would be the better option. You can never trust on escort websites. Most of it is fake. Because most men don’t have the balls to walk away. And tourists are specially easy once the girls start making drama. Most men don’t like police showing up because of a hysterical girl

  10. Hilarious!

    You guys should check this out!
    Guys are reporting THOT’s to the IRS for evading taxes by the thousands. First reactions of THOT’s being audited by the IRS are already coming in. It’s a wonderful hilarious shit show. The IRS even gives rewards for people reporting them. Seems that these THOT’s are finally going to have to pay their share for the social government payouts they wanted. The free ride is over! And now young men also have a way to make easy money for doing nothing on the internet. Just report some THOT’s and they receive 30% of the money they owe to the IRS. For some THOT’s this can be thousands of dollars. This is truly a marvellous shit show. These hoes go nuts because their pussy’s, tits and asses are now liable for taxation. Hilarious!

    1.’s a random article i saw related to your post:

      The thots and their white knight supporters are all upset, saying it’s incels and misgynists who are so oppresive…trying to get these “thots” to pay their fair share in taxes.

      I remember reading a study about how women pay less in taxes and yet consume more of the benefits of taxes (e.g. tax-paid social services).

  11. I recall Aaron spoke about Neil deGrasse Tyson, the…astronomer or something?

    Anyways, he’s getting some retroactive sexual harrassment or misconduct allegation…

    Maybe this is how you get women in STEM…kick out the men by accusing them of sexism or harrassment. I recall recently some European scientist being lambasted (ousted?) for saying women didn’t invent physics.

    Soon there will be people saying how women sacrificed more than men did in WW2 (if people even know what the acronym ‘WW2’ means…)

  12. Is this fucking real? Recent article detailing how a 6 year old boy is being forced by his mother to live as a transgender. I reas that the courts in Texas are even going along with this, condemning the father and insisting that his preference for his son remaining a boy is abusive. Supposedly this kid really does just want to be a normal boy. However, I also read that there are plans to chemically castrate and eventually perform a sex change procedure on this boy. All apparently being encouraged by the system?

    1. He’s most likely going to lose this case. This is done in the family court. Totally feminist dominated. And he leaked information to the outside world about it. The family courts dont like that. He’s likely to lose all his rights while his money is being taken. He won’t get any justice. The best thing he can do is take his children to another country. Just sell everything and run with his boys. Just disappear while he still has access to them. Because they will likely terminate all access to his children as soon as possible. And triple his child support payments. This way he won’t have the power to fight this in anyway. And after six months they can use his absence in his children’s life’s as a reason for terminating his parental rights anyway. He’s fucked! And so are his children. He has zero chance within the system. I would just run if i were him. Keep up an act like you are still trying in the courts. And one day just gone without a trace.

    2. I see, so his only option is the haul ass out of the country. Sounds easier said than done. Not just anyone can up and assimilate somewhere decent, seems even less likely when you’re running from something and are already obligated.

    3. @Pickernanny: What’s the alternative? His son being chemically castrated and undergoing a sex change. And the guy spending most his money on lawyers while his ex is being funded by support groups subsidised by the taxpayers. And losing whats left of his money to his ex together with his parental rights. After that he’s forced to become a wageslave for his ex-wife. While his kids are ruined for life. And he’s probably not even allowed to see his kids anymore. Running will be hard. But not running will be absolute hell. He should run now. Because after the courtcase it will be to late for him and his son.

  13. Neil DeGrasse Tyson Addresses Sexual Misconduct Accusations:

    “Afterwards, she came into my office to told me she was creeped out by the wine & cheese evening. She viewed the invite as an attempt to seduce her, even though she sat across the wine & cheese table from me, and all conversation had been in the same vein as all other conversations we ever had.”

    How dare this beta-schmuck even play with the thought of seducing me??
    While I don’t like the man himself with this story metoo ends up creepshaming undesirable men. Unsurprising and entirely predictable.

    1. “Undesirable” is a stretch. The guy has money and status, after all. Of course, all the money in the world could be insufficient for some women to try sex with a black man, which might be about racism, or not.

  14. Here are recent news about #metoo industry:

    As in title: man at whatever position in a company are advised to avoid woman at all cost. All time.
    Who would have guessed it? That frivolous accusations will turn bad for woman. And of course it is hurting woman more than man.

    But as article goes that is not ideal solution:

    “”If men avoid working or traveling with women alone, or stop mentoring women for fear of being accused of sexual harassment,” he said, “those men are going to back out of a sexual harassment complaint and right into a sex discrimination complaint.””

    Oh, and they suggesting solution to that huge problem:

    “Finally, he landed on the solution: “Just try not to be an asshole.””

    Yeah, because it is that simple.

    1. I recently got a blowjob from this chick in my car. It was one of the best bjays I’ve ever had hands down. But I made sure to set my phone up with a secret audio recording app before hand. So in case this slut ever tries to say anything I literally have her on record saying her full name. At one point after the act, I mentioned that that was some porn grade head. She then exclaimed, ” No, that was some (full name) head, teeheehee!”

    1. That’s a easy choice. A sexual assault claim is towards the man himself. He will suffer most negative consequences personally. A gender discriminatoin complaint is aimed at the business he works for. And will mostly go away without any consequences at all. Worst case, the business he works for pays a small amount of money. And you can still get a gender discriminatoin claim if you do hire women. They can simply make that claim if you dont give them the corner office. Combined with all the extra costs and problems. It’s probably cheaper to just pay a couple thousand for gender discriminatoin from time to time. You just pass the bill on to the consumer. You cant buy off a sexual assault claim. So gender discriminatoin claims are the lesser evil.

    2. Or just move your business overseas. It doesn’t matter that much anymore were the office is located. Specially in finance. It’s all digital these days. You don’t have to be on wallstreet anymore to buy or sell and follow the market trends. You can do that everywhere these days.

    3. You are probably right at least if the person in question is a big shot who can hide behind the company. I imagine however that if someone more replacable tried to pull Mike Pence rule he would probably get Damored by the HR department don’t you think?

    4. I’m starting my business in Thailand. No problems with any stupid rules. I pay about 10% tax. Pay only a few bucks for some permits. It’s all so much easier than doing business in Europe. Why not moving the office to bangkok? I don’t see much value in wallstreet anymore. It use to be the place to be for finance. It use to be the heart of the financial world. Today thats in cyber space. You can axes the internet from anywhere you like. Why worry about all these stupid gender rules, high taxes and high wage costs. Just move it to Asia. Plenty highly educated Asian people who are willing to work their ass off. They don’t have this snowflake mentality. My employees bow to me. They actually respect the man paying the bill. They are grateful for every chance you give them to advance. In contrast with these snowflakes who get angry when they don’t get a bonus they never earned. Asia has the future. Fuck New York, Londen, Paris, Berlin, Brussels etc. Most of these Western millennial employees are worthless anyway.

    5. In light of what you said about Thailand being a great place for business, I would like to ask you about crime and safety in Thailand.

      Where would you rank Thailand between Singapore which is a 10 in safety and a country like South Africa which is a minus 5 in safety and England and namely London being at just 1.

      This concern about safety is the only thing that keeps me from living longterm in Thailand. But my idea of Thailand being unsafe is based on a four trips there. Could you shed some light about crime and safety in Thailand and the general level of peace and calm in the many popular cities (don’t bother about Chiang Mai by the way) in Thailand. I don’t want to be prudish and say prostitution is a crime. I purely mean violent crime when I say that word.

    6. @Don: Location is everything. Just avoid the tourists hotspots (redlight) and you’ll be okay. Most crimes committed against foreigners are small stuff. If you want to do business you need to have real good Thai connections. Most guys losing their money are just plain stupid. They often get involved within the prostitution business. This will attract organised crime. Thailand is pretty save overall. Unless you do stupid things. Trusting a hooker with your wallet. Flashing your money. Getting shit drunk and pass out in a bar. Insult people publicly. Doing drugs. Stuff like that. I feel saver in most of Thailand than i do in Amsterdam. I never had much trouble with Thai people. I had more trouble with drunk Western people in Thailand. Have to admit it’s a bit different for me. I’m mostly hanging with Thai people. A white dude wondering around alone is probably more likely to be a target. I would say it’s about a 6.5 in most of Thailand. It’s ok.

  15. Considering that we have a lot of people on the forum who are into Personal development, I was curious to hear your thougts on the following issue that I’ve been experiencing lately.

    What I experience is that I make progress, but then there’s a voice in my head saying that it’s not good enough. Lately, this is starting to ensure that I’m not enjoying my gym work, or Meditation anymore. Causing me to skip it.

    How can you keep enjoying an activity while not letting the performance aspect dominate it?

    1. Maybe you can find some sport that involves working out? I did martial arts. Instead of purely focusing on getting in shape. You focus on learning how to fight. While at the same time you get into shape. Or do some other sport that has the same effect. Maybe swimming once a week? Also very good exercise for many muscle groups. And a great calorie burner. Use to do it allot next to my normal training when i was preparing for competitions. Just swimming alone once a week for a year will make a great difference. If you do it in the evening for just one hour. Take two shots afterwards at the bar. You’ll sleep like a baby.

    2. “a voice in my head saying that it’s not good enough. (…) How can you keep enjoying an activity while not letting the performance aspect dominate it?”

      I think the real question you’re asking is “how do I stop being hard on myself?”.

      Try to solve your issue from that angle.

  16. Why do you think or not think that the following statement is true?

    “Women can only and I mean only like & respect men who have other women but choses only her”

    I think there is a lot of truth to that statement.

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