Open Thread

Open Thread 2018 (#10)

The Open Thread is a place for open discussion among my readers. Post anything you feel like sharing! From now on, the Open Thread will no longer be monthly. Instead, there will be a new Open Thread whenever it is adequate. The stage is yours. Go ahead! Note that there is also an Open Thread on Aaron S. Elias’s site.

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77 thoughts on “Open Thread 2018 (#10)

  1. I have an understanding issue with regards to fitness.
    As I read, the body can “feed itself” from food, fat reserves or muscle tissue.
    What is the trigger for the body to go and eat muscle? How can I avoid that my muscles get eaten away and at the same time be in a deficit? Is simply “using” the muscle, aka weight training enough?

    Second: I don’t understand why one needs to be in a surplus to gain muscle
    It makes sense to be in a deficit to lose fat, but isn’t a balanced diet i.e. calories in = calories out enough to gain muscle? Why gain additional fat? Can’t muscle tissue be produced in a balanced state, converting existing fat into muscle?

    Just doesn’t seem logic.

    1. I suggest you go checkout
      Excellent source of information regarding fitness(muscle growth and fat loss)

      To answer your questions:
      “How can I avoid that my muscles get eaten away and at the same time be in a deficit? Is simply “using” the muscle, aka weight training enough?”

      Summary of it is: Continue to work and maintain your strength levels while keeping a sufficient protein intake. other important details found in that link.

      As for your 2nd question,Jay(the author of that website)also answers it:

      Summary of it though is that once you’re past the beginner stage,the best you can do is minimize fat gains with the muscle growth. I can’t answer the “why” part of the question though. I think I read about the mechanics of how it works somewhere before,but I’ve long forgotten it. I hope my answer was helpful.

    2. Notabene: We are assuming a sufficient intake of protein im both cases.

    3. Short answer: Steroids

      Basically as a natural you don’t need to worry about any of that. Lifting only 2 times a week is enough to preserve natural muscle.

    4. Surpluses are for steroid users. Natural gains are so slow that if you “had to eat extra calories for the extra muscle” it’d be something like 13 more calories a day.

    5. And you’re naturally gonna end up eating those extra 13-40 calories a day. Your appetite will grow to get you to make those extra 2 bites of food a week. Or you’ll get it from reserves, whatever.

      It’s only with using super unnaturally high levels of hormones that the body can’t auto-adjust… It’s only then that you have to conciously focus on forcing a surplus.

      BTW, that’s the source of a lot of conflicting and confusing contradictory information in this field. It’s like we’re talking about two different species… But the article giving the advice can’t outright state for which species the advice applies.

      A roider has a completely different physiology.

    6. Thanks Alek.
      What about the first question?
      What actually triggers the body to eat its own muscle?
      I’ve heard that this happens if you do not cover your baseline consumption.
      Say mine is 1900 kcal per day. So according to that view if I eat 1500 kcal per day, I start losing muscle, even if I work out.
      Ehm… then what about fasting?
      It looks to that the fear of the body consuming its own muscle despite working out is BS. I can’t behaving the capacity to lift more weight this week than last week and at the same time lose muscle.

    7. “BTW, that’s the source of a lot of conflicting and confusing contradictory information in this field. It’s like we’re talking about two different species…”

      Good one. There is a third species called ectomorphs – skinny guys who don’t gain muscle despite exercising regularly so they have to force feed themselves. Sometimes person’s appetite is below muscle gain requirement(ectomorph) but it can also be way above it(endomorph). I’ve found that wrist size correlates quite nicely with appetite, almost all fat people have big wrists even though there is almost no subcutaneous fat in that area of the body. Same thing with slow-growing muscles such as calves and forearms which are mostly determined by genetics.

    8. By the way, the website is full of bullshit. The author of that website has no qualifications in fitness and is NOT a doctor. He’s a self proclaimed expert much like the PUAs of lore.

    9. @Don
      You’re going to have to elaborate on that and point out his advice that you think are “bullshit material.” I’ve seen all kinds of great material from his site.

      It was actually from him where I initially learned the truth about fat loss. That its really all about putting yourself in a caloric deficit,not the complicated bullshit that the mainstream fitness industry tries to tell you. (There was a guy who commented here about managing to lose weight on a unhealthy Mcdonalds diet. yes,that is factually true. If you put yourself in a caloric deficit,you can lose weight that way. Not that I recommend it of course)

      As for his “qualifications”,see here:

      He doesn’t reveal his identity and he sells 2 e-books,but Aaron does the same thing. The quality of the information they both put out is really good for their respective field.

      His beginner weight training routine is good and simple. It really only starts to get complicated once you move on to doing his intermediate+ routine but that’s because he’s a min-maxer.

    10. @Maou, I’ve said enough. You can make your own decision.

      But he’s not qualified in fitness nor is he a doctor. Heck, he probably is a she or even an eunuch.

      Fitness is more important that seduction that I prefer to lose weight how I did. Not according to how some asshole on the internet says I could.


    This is the type of girl I run into in the bar/club scene way too often. Said girl needs to be left at the door, but idiot pickup guys would say something like the guy has “weak game” and isn’t “controlling the frame” or that she’s “testing his frame”.

    1. All girls in the bar/club scene are better left at the door. Fucking club hoes is a bit like using a public bathroom. No one really values them. But you’re happy to see one when there’s no other alternative available.

    2. A girl without mental issues doesn’t sleep around with strangers. If she let’s herself been picked up at a club. She clearly isn’t mentally well. Expecting anything but a mental case would be to optimistic.

  3. I just came across another PUA site again while watching a video on youtube which recommended me watch that guys PUA video. The guys is new to being a PUA guru by the way and doesn’t know the train has left him. He says much the same nonsense as the others.

    I was tripping to say this comment on his site but decided to do so here because I don’t want to contribute to a PUA site anymore.

    The largest part of a woman(women) coming home with you is done weeks or even years before you enter the room whether it be a club or anywhere you meet her. If you are hot be it because you are good looking, wealthy or famous or even a combination of those things, you will have a lot of sex with a lot of different women if that is your cup of tea. If not, you’ll be served with a land whale that you’ll have to justify as having a nice personality and that it is why you are with her.

    1. I don’t understand why guys continue to flaunt that women are only into looks, money and status, like as if this is what ALL women want or at least just the physically attractive ones. If you watch a lot of BS MGTOW videos on YouTube or expose yourself to social media all day long, sure that’s what you’re led to believe. Sure there are women that put those things on the top of their list, but do you seriously want anything to do with a girl like Snooki from Jersey Shore?

      Women are attracted to MEN, first and foremost. Even the strong, independent ones want to be led. They’re attracted to guys who don’t make women the main purpose in their life; they have a greater purpose. The reason why ‘nice guys’ have a hard time attracting women is because they have little to no standards when meeting a woman; they’ll tolerate a girl’s bad behavior and in a relationship they give the girl the world.

      As much garbage PUA sites throw out there, they do establish a lot of good in that they do get guys out of their apartments/basements/houses and into the land of women and they give good insight on how a guy should carry himself through the world.

    2. “As much garbage PUA sites throw out there, they do establish a lot of good in that they do get guys out of their apartments/basements/houses and into the land of women and they give good insight on how a guy should carry himself through the world.”

      Even in that regard PUA is garbage. Anti-PUA(aka common sense) message is much more healthy for your average shy guy. Realizing that whether a woman likes you is largely predetermined is much more liberating than believing your attractiveness constantly ebbs and flows depending on how you behave. Nothing makes a guy more insecure than wondering whether he is behaving in a manly way like his guru taught him.

    3. Skepdick… agreed…

      It’s that whole definitional bait&switch trick again. As if PUA is the only way to get guys out of the house, and they wouldn’t have otherwise.

    4. Even the strong, independent ones want to be led.

      When ugly guys with no status try to lead it’s called harassment 🙂 If you’re lucky it’s “creepy”.

    5. Alek Novy: Spot on. The only difference between flirting and harassment seems to be a guy’s attractiveness these days.
      There is some truth to PUA theories. But it only works for guys women like to fuck anyway. That’s what i liked about the minimal game concept. Increase your own SMV. Create situational awareness. Don’t waste your time on women who don’t show interest. Just do hot approach. Women’s body language and non verbal communication will tell you if she wants you. If not, don’t waste your time. She won’t change her mind just because you have a good pick up line. And she might scream harassment if you use the rong one. There have been PUA’s who went to jail for rape. Just because a drunk slut regretted letting herself been gangbanged after the fact. This whole yes means yes and withdrawing consent after the fact bs makes PUA to risky. And considering the low quality of the girls. We should ask ourselves. Is it worth all the time, effort, money and risks to bang club hoes? Why not call an escort instead?

    6. The hole club scene is dead anyway. Maybe there’s a market for private clubs. Just an exclusive members only thing. keep some girl’s on the payroll. All the pretty girls are losing their easy money jobs. cheerleading. formula one, modelling, miss America etc. This might open doors for other markets. Like club owned sugar baby’s. Rent or buy a mansion with a bunch of guys. Fill it up with good looking sluts. Keep it hush hush for the outside world. Members only. Pay an monthly contribution. Empty your balls a few times a week. Or something like that. Might be cheaper than a girlfriend or an escort. And with feminist destroying all the pretty girl jobs. It just might work.

    7. NB: Without looks, money and status. You might get a ugly, fat, old woman. But if you want anything above a 5. You’ll need to have something to offer. You’ll never get a hot girl without looks, money or status. The hotter they are, the more looks, money and status you’ll need. This has nothing to do with women being evil. It’s just how women are. It’s called hypergamy. It’s an instinct that all women have. Just like all men have a dominance instinct. The only reason that not all women always act on their hypergamy would be opportunity. Some women are simply to ugly, fat, old or oppressed to act on their hypergamy. That doesn’t mean they don’t have it. Just look what happens with women who get their stomach made smaller. 80% gets a divorce within 2 years. Because after losing weight they can act on their hypergamy. The only difference is opportunity. Now they are capable to trade in their husband for a guy with higher looks, money and status. Their SMV has gone up. And so they’ll trade up.

    8. It takes a lot to defend PUAs. Especially to guys who regularly get laid. But I know that you probably are a bullshit artist so it’s nothing out of the ordinary.

    9. First of all, the whole looks/money/status game is one that can never be won. No matter how good your looks are or how much money you make or how popular you are within a certain circle, the guy next door is always going to have more.

      Second, a guy can have looks/money/status but if he acts nervous/weird out on a date or just a downright douchebag, I can guarantee she’s going to lose interest in him.

      Third, a lot of women have rejected guys who were too good looking, etc. because they thought they were out of their league.

      Guys who follow MGTOW religiously would wholeheartedly disagree with me, but most of those guys aren’t going out and meeting women regularly – at least not with a positive mindset.

    10. Your starting argument is weak. Sure, there will always be someone better, but what do you think you are going to achieve by not improving yourself? Women certainly perceive established men to be a lot more “charismatic” than some broke losers. The only saving grace is if you are a broke Chad because then you are “eccentric” and “so funny.”

    11. NB: Most MGTOW would agree. There’s always a bigger fish. That’s why they are not playing that game. Or not in the way women and society wants them to play it. MGTOW is a concept based on self-ownership. Guy’s refuse to have relationships in way’s that invites the system in. Some go full monk, others just only play by their own rules. And MGTOW don’t make women the centre of their life’s. The only difference is that unlike you. MGTOW are not looking for a woman who’s not like that. Because they are all like that. No exceptions. It’s their nature. And it’s okay. Just not for committed relationships within the modern Western system. It’s the system MGTOW rejects. Sadly you can’t have relationships with Western women, without having a relationship with the government. Because the government is her first husband. MGTOW isn’t the counterpart of feminism. They just realise feminism has already won from traditionalism. So there’s no reason to play the traditional game anymore. Until feminism is gone. So are we.

    12. NB: If you want men to take on traditional roles again. If you want men to embrace marriage again. If you want men to start families again. If you want men to take responsibility for the well-being of women, children and society again. The solution is very simple. Restore male authority. Make marriage and divorce laws like they were before 1900. Take away women’s right to vote. A man can’t take responsibility for something he has no authority over. You can’t expect men to take responsibility. When women have all the legal power in the relationship. While rooming free to do whatever they want. Because all it needs is one phone call to her first husband. And all your alpha male illusions will be demolished. Guys with guns will drag you from your home. They’ll take your money. They’ll take your children. And they’ll force you to keep financing your ex who destroyed your life. Because her happyness is all that counts. You can’t alpha the system.

    13. Technology will auto-solve all of this. Once artificial wombs are out, women’s value will plummet…

      The only reason women have any of the power that they do is their wombs, that’s it.

    14. Alek Novy: Women’s value is already going down in the Western world. But they just keep raising the prices. As women make more money in their diversity hire jobs. They foolishly believe their own value go’s up. So these independent career women pushing 40 are freezing their eggs until prince charming comes along. One day they’ll have to face the fact that prince charming doesn’t get warm feelings from over the wall women or their frozen eggs. And younger women will witness this magnificent crash. It’s going to be beautiful. First they’ll try to blame men. They’ll try to hide it. Denial, anger, despair, hysteria, depression, suicide. It’s going to be a magnificent thing to witness. And in about only a few years this will blow up. Sob stories are already becoming regular now. Still blaming childish men. Clearly guys are not buying the goods anymore. They all toss these bitches aside after they are used up. And younger women will learn from it. And all these woke businesses are going broke. It’s beautiful.

    15. @Alek
      Don’t forget Virtual reality and even Sexbots. Yeah,once the fully refined version of these things are out,they will change the sexual marketplace forever.

  4. @ben, I have been already thinking about buying/renting a mansion and having a private club setup there. I am still thinking about it though as it seems a bit difficult to do. Would you shed some light by spreading your ideas here?

    1. The main factor is to have about a 10:1 ratio of girls to guys. Mainly models and the such. Setup in a fun friendly local.

    2. Don: I don’t really have a finished plan. And i’m moving to Thailand myself. So i don’t expect much trouble getting laid anytime soon. I’m just throwing out some thoughts on how to solve the problem for men. Private clubs are not a new concept. It’s just very expensive to join one. They are not very accessible to the average man. And they are mostly used for networking in business. The girls are only there for parties. But now with the changes within society. It might be an idea to adopt the model of the private club. And change it to the average man’s needs. The old relationship model doesn’t work anymore. Pick up is risky and often a waste of time. Sugar baby’s are often overpriced. Hiring an escort every week is a expensive hobby. So there is a demand for something better. I was thinking about something in Thailand for myself. But i need to be very careful. Because i’m about to invest a sizable amount of money in other businesses. So i’m putting things like this on hold. But maybe in time?

  5. Don: A 10:1 ratio of girls to guys is not an opinion for average guys within the Western world . That’s only possible if you’re aiming at multimillionaires. Or when you move it to a commercial scale. But that would make it lose the private club theme. And it would draw lots of attention. Attention is something you don’t want. This will move the feminist and SJW’s into action. And self-righteous conservative lawmakers will shut you down. And a 3:1 ratio is already more than the average guy can ever hope to achieve. Specially when you’re talking about model quality girls. Anyway, it will be hard to do within the Western world. Because both left and right will shut you down if given the chance. Both are gynocentric. They don’t like the idea of men getting a good deal sexually.

    1. Don: You need a concept with Plausible deniability. Just like Seeking Arrangement is doing.

    2. Yeah, I too don’t have a finished idea. Lets see. It has been very productive to discuss with you though. I guess the 10:1 ratio is quite possible in some parts of the world. But you are right, its hard to do and which is what had been keeping me back for the most part. Thanks.

    3. By the way, I was thinking of a setup like that of Dan Bilzerian without the instagram.

    4. I know a couple of people who has this kind of baller arrangement. I am just thinking of doing the same.

    5. The concept of the Thai gentleman’s club is interesting. There you’ll have a 10:1 ratio at times. But it’s also more expensive than other local possibilities. And doesn’t even always lead to getting laid. It’s basically just partying with hot girls in underwear or bikini. And you can have 3 girls for the night for that money in Thailand. But it’s a fun experience some times. The pricing structure is smart from a business perspective however. Great money maker. Not really affordable for the average local guy. And not really something i like to do every day. But interesting concept for a business.

    6. Don: In Thailand i have a 8 bed/8 bath/2 hottub/large swimming pool/4 car garage mansion with palm beach view for about 2000 Euro a month. Totally furnished and with a nice bar/lounge area. So basically fit for a private club. With utilities that’s about 2500 Euro a month. Plenty of room to house some girls. I’m thinking about personal possibilities. But other business has priority for now. Because those are my money makers. And this would be more personal pleasure. Just hanging out with some bro’s. Drinking some whiskey. Having fun with the girls in a little style. Maybe buy a limousine to cruise around. Also not too expensive in Thailand. And it attracts girls. Basically trade a taste of the luxury lifestyle for pussy. Rent free living for unlimited pussy. Or something like that.

      In the Western world that would cost you a fortune. But in Thailand it’s reasonably affordable.

    7. Don: Maybe ask the bro’s to discreetly pass me an envelope from time to time. To show their appreciation of our friendship. And to contribute to the party’s. To keep things going. And i’ll tell the girls about how nice guy he is. (Plausible deniability.)

  6. This is BS. OK Cupid deleted its study detailing how women deem 80% of men to be below average. My theory is that they got too much flack from women who realized the study reflected badly on their gender. Subsequently they pressured the company using de facto political correctness policies and had the article removed.

    Here is the link to that article:

    They also have a piece out on how race affects your chances at online dating, and I suspect that will be gone too.


    1. Funny thing though, I didn’t found even the hottest pictures in that article particularly cute.

      That goes to show how ugly people on online dating sites are in general.

    2. The OKCupid article detailing how women rate 80% of men as below average has been copied so many times in red pill circles. It will never been lost. It’s very telling about modern women. And it basically confirmed what the red pill communities were saying for years. Hypergamy is running wild.

    3. Don: Every guy who ever dated a 10 long-term knows why they don’t use dating sites. These girls get 20 guys minimum every day trying to hump their leg. They mostly cover up before going outside. Just to reduce the number of leg humpers. They really don’t have to advertise themselves on the dating market. You’ll never find a 10 on a dating site. It use to drive me nuts sometimes when guys were all trying to hump my ex. Every fucking day we had to deal with that shit. We had a protocol for those situations. The last thing these girls want is a bunch of internet stalkers who sent them dick picks.

  7. I’m dropping red pills in psychology academics for the last few months. Mostly i’m blasted for having such obnoxious views about female nature. Funny thing is that some psychology professor was now presenting some of my points as his own. He presented it in a more snowflake friendly way. But he had clearly copied some of my points on polygamy vs monogamy. Hilarious to see how the same people who blast you because you have a challenging idea. Will use these same ideas for their own work. It seems to be the only thing these leftist academics can do. Copy the ideas of others. Decorate them a bit with feelgood bs. And present it like their own. I still have trouble believing people pay them for this shit. They really can’t produce anything themselves.

  8. You guys talked extensively about meeting women in clubs before but that seems to have changed by now. Therefore, I would like to ask where do you think that you can meet quality women now?

    1. Duke: Clubs are pretty much done in the US and Western Europe. Because the guys really paying for the party. The mass majority of despaired men. Finally figured out they weren’t getting any bang for their buck. The club scene is just like all other places. The 80/20 rule can not be ignored. In the past some lower ranking guys got lucky because of alcohol. But now with the yes means yes bullshit and other consent laws. That club pick up shit has become to risky. You never go to a club to find your future wife. You go there to get laid. The problem now is that she can now call it rape whenever she doesn’t like the outcome. If the dude is below her standards and she regrets having sex. Rape. If the guy she likes pumps and dumps her. Rape. If she drinks any alcohol she can now say her consent didn’t count. Withdrawing consent after the fact. Club hoes were never stable to begin with. The problems now is that these instable women will be taken seriously. So picking up drunk psycho’s. Bad idea!

    2. Duke: Where you can meet quality women now? What do you mean with quality women? Your future wife? Or just a hot girl to have sex with?
      Either go outside the Western world, Eastern Europe, Russia or Asia. Or call an high class escort. Damm even a sexdoll will be better quality than the average Western women these days.

    3. Duke: You can also follow the money. Quality women go wherever the money go’s. Problem with that, you will need even more money to be able to compete. So maybe that’s your answer dude. Forget about quality women until you have enough money to pay for one. The smell of the money will make them come to you.

    4. What do you guys think of the fact that in Asia, most girls expect her boyfriend to pay for her expenses and her family expenses like for major healthcare expenses? While that is unheard of in Eastern Europe.

    1. It’s true in a way. I can’t speak for all Asian cultures. I know in Thai culture costs are shared by the family. It’s not like one person has to pay for everything. Unless you’re the only one capable of making contribute. A person makes a contribution to the family in balance with his capacity to do so. Most Asian families are bigger than Western families. If a family member is in the hospital, all family members capable make a financial contribution. If you’re the richest person within the family. You are also expected to make the biggest financial contribution. Taking care of family is important in Thai culture. This will also work the other way around. They will also take care of you. They will also share with you. This isn’t a one way street. They don’t have a welfare state. When things go rong, it’s the family that takes care of that person. Sharing is also a important part of their culture. One does not eat alone.

    2. There are Asian girls who just try to milk their Western boyfriends. Who take advantage of them. But thats not likely when she introduced you to her family. If a guy is constantly asked for money. Without even been introduced to her family. Sick father, broken roof, sick uncle, sick cow etc. He’s being played. They even have t-shirts in Thailand with all the bullshit excuses bar girls use. This is different however if a girl is serious about you. Yes you make a contribution. But it’s never that one sided. In Thai culture you are a insider or an outsider. If you are a insider, they will do almost anything to help you in whatever way they can. They will also share with you.

    3. Don: The basic red pill knowledge also applies to Asian women. Sometimes you have to say no. They will mumble for about 5 min. But overall they will respect your decision more easily than a Western woman. You can’t escape having to contribute to her family. But it’s perfectly oke to tell her no sometimes. Some guys just have trouble doing that. But those guys will struggle with all women. Doesn’t matter where they come from.

  9. Maybe you can look for an Asian girl with lots of sisters? It could also turn into a match however. To see who’s the golden daughter. You don’t want to get involved in that game. Besides i wouldn’t be that concerned with the medical bill. I’ve been to a doctor in Thailand. It wasn’t worth reporting it to my insurance. It was about 5% of the costs i would pay in the Netherlands. And i went to the most expensive one in town.

  10. Does anyone know what the most popular classified sites there are for the different countries in Europe where you can post personals or look for escorts?

    1. Anthony: Most of these sites are not really reliable. Fake pictures and such. Most escorts keep their face hidden etc. Depending on the country, you could just call an escort agency and ask them to send you some pictures. Alway ask them to confirm the costs while on the phone.

    2. Ben,

      Used to be so much easier with backpage! Even better, craigslist was easy to find non professionals just looking to get paid. There definitely exists a market for it!

    3. Anthony: Everyone has gone digital these day’s. These girl’s don’t like to have their picture on a escort website. They understand that it could possibly be seen by family, friends or a future husband. There are some hobby hoes advertising on the net. But the real good looking once wouldn’t do that. They probably want to become a trophy wife one day. They won’t risk losing that opportunity. Her future husband will probably never know that he’s number 6573.

    4. Ben, what i mean are website that everyone uses in general. Craigslist in the United States for example, was used by everyone, and you could post sexual ads for money, and you’d get random women responding for fun encounters.

      Any sites like that?

    5. Anthony:
      Maybe for the Netherlands? It’s basically for all erotic adds in the Netherlands. There are even hoes willing to fuck without condom. If you feel like playing russian roulet with your balls. BDSM, threesomes, gangbangs and whatever else you might like. All too risky for my taste. Never know what happens. They might ambush you to steal your money. So don’t do anything stupid. Be careful.

  11. Bunch of 6’s women like :

    6′ height
    6 figure income
    6″ below the belt
    6 pack abs

    And they want men to tolerate:

    6 previous sex partners
    6 kg extra weight on her
    6 cats
    6 pairs of shoes or handbags purchased every 6 months
    6 backups they keep in the friend zone
    6 heinous acts of betrayal she will never tell you about

    Note: the devil’s number is also 666

    1. Let us pray the pimps prayer!

      Lord, have mercy on the soul of this bitch. Guide my pimp hand, and make it strong Lord; that she might learn a ho’s place.

      Genius! I have never been a religious man. But after learning this i can finally see the light.
      Let us all pray!

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