Open Thread

Open Thread 2018 (#7)

The Open Thread is a place for open discussion among my readers. Post anything you feel like sharing! From now on, the Open Thread will no longer be monthly. Instead, there will be a new Open Thread whenever it is adequate. The stage is yours. Go ahead! Note that there is also an Open Thread on Aaron S. Elias’s site.

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72 thoughts on “Open Thread 2018 (#7)

  1. Hello, what are your thought (or anyone else commenting) on 12personnalities dot com ? They provide (non-free) self-help stuff based on your (free) personnality test results (Myers-Briggs). I heard that Myers-Briggs is at least partially inaccurate so I would be cautious about engaging time and money in this. However I did the free test and they send you a pdf with how your personnality looks like in real life and it’s pretty damn accurate.

    1. I am not familiar with that website, but be careful when evaluating such materials. It could well be that you are only looking for results that confirm your own beliefs about yourself.

  2. So…opinions on gear (steroids)? I’m seriously considering a Test cycle at some point.

    Forgive me if this sort of discussion is not allowed, I won’t bring that up again if that’s the case.

    1. Gr8 so…from what I researched so far, pure T has very little downsides. You’ll even test negative for PED. Yet studies show that even a mild amount of extra T can result in a couple extra pounds of LBM.

      Anyone knows a solid reason AGAINST cycling Testosterone?

    2. Anyone knows a solid reason AGAINST cycling Testosterone?

      Plenty of reasons against it in your 20s and 30s… It’s just dumb to do it when you’re young.

      In your 40s it’s all upsides except for one thing… the one and only reason against it is this: it shuts down natural production. Now this a kind of philosophical question.

      Do you care it shuts down natural production when you are on a downard slope of losing it anyway? In about 10 years i see myself seriously considering it. I’ll do more research then…

      But I mean, my logic is this. Aging kills T anyway, so what if TRT shuts it down? Nature is doing it anyway… Someone might say “but what if age reversal technologies come and they can make you younger and you’ll have the high T “naturally” again”… Well if such advanced technologies come, they’ll have no problem reversing the “TRT shutdown” either, so…

    3. Alek Novy: (if age reversal technologies come and they can make you younger) Still in experimental stage. But already on the market. A dutch scientist created a protein that reverses the process. It works but long-term health risks are not clear. More research is needed for safety. But you can already buy it on the internet. A chinese company is already selling it.


    This is an old one, but I find it interesting that while the white guy gives some hard facts on why he dislikes blacks and why he considers them unproductive members of society, the black guy starts giving this emotional shit on how slavery impacts them and Tupac and bla bla.
    Now, where it really gets annoying is how the comments praise this as a balanced “debate” and can’t seem to see the difference between facts and feelings.
    Aaaand of course the video ends with them hugging each other.
    Bottom line, blacks can do unproductive shit because feelings and it has the same value as whites actually paying for this shit with hard labor and tax-money producing efforts.
    Another piece of fucking libtard propaganda if you ask me, but then again, I’m a white and racist guy…

    1. That song is written by Joyner Lucas, who claims to be half white and half black. A lot of his other shit seems clearly “dark only.” At least he’s lightyears ahead of Li’l Pump. Jesus.

      Anyway, my guess would be that as a successful rapper standing over 6 ft high that isn’t into drug culture that he’s not too overly oppressed or anything. The song did well to get a lot of attention, however.

  4. What’s the consensus on tall women and desirability? Let’s say you have two women that are equally fit, long thick hair and a good symmetrical faces, with the same socioeconomic status and similar personalities/interests, would most guys prefer the girl that’s 5ft 2in or the chick that’s 6ft even?

    1. Well… the problem is that height itself makes sure they’re not equal.

      A tall girl needs to be twice as feminine to look attractive than does a short girl. So having the same amount of symmetry/fitness/complexion isn’t enough.

    2. To add to that, I don’t think you’ll even find taller girls with great curves. No, I’m not referring to fat women, but to women who have a genuine hourglass figure.

    3. Yah, it’s literally the rarest thing in human biology. A tall girl with that figure is almost like a biological contradiction. Most of them get to be supermodels and party with billionaires. It’s almost like an anomaly.

    4. Supermodels are revered mainly because of their height. I don’t think there is any supermodel with a genuine claim to that title with real curves. (No, feminist morons, I’m not talking about the fatties that are sometimes put on magazine covers to “subvert” beauty standards.)

    5. Thanks for clarifying guys. In regards to the necessity of being more feminine and that fact that tall women are probably higher in testosterone than the average woman, I’d assume that it’s just very uncommon. Even if a woman puts up the facade that her attitude is super sweet, open and giggly early on it’s a matter of time before she starts farting and belching in front of you.

    6. All you have to do is look at her hands. No amount of giggling will hide the fact that she’s manly if she has manly hands.

      You’ll notice most tall girls have manly hands and fingers.

    7. to add to Alek’s comment on hands:
      Female hands are the single best indicator of age. Even Asian women don’t escape it.

    8. @SG, I can’t comment on the neck, but for sure the hands are always visible, the neck not so. I’m pretty sure your parents’ face look younger than their hands.

      Besides, I don’t see the logic with the neck area, as it’s a place where the skin is quite stretched contrary to the hands.

  5. I have the following questios.
    1. Aaron, i read both your books – club game and minimal game. Theres one part that was not discussed and that’s how to close the deal(sex). For example, if im on a first date with a girl or im with a girl at a bar, how do i address the issue of getting her to come back to my place for sex. Do i simply say “lets go to my place and continue the fun?” Hoping that shell understand that its an invitation to go have sex at my place?

    2. In regards to hypergamy, how is it that certain women settle for guys who dont have much going for themselves in life, and yet these guys tend to sleep with a lot of attractive wome like strippers. I notice that strippers and pornstars tend to date guys on the extreme end of a spectrum. He is either wealthy or a deadbeat who has tattoos all over his body like Tommy Lee or Travis Barker both American musician’s. From that point, a cycle begins where women date these types of guys and complain how theres no good men and yet will spread their legs quickly for them and not some decent guy. If hypergamy is all about upgrading, how is a guy who is a loser filled with tattoos all over his body an upgrade?

    1. Hypergamy just means more than. It can be taller than her, smarter than her,
      more accomplished than her etc…

      It doesn’t mean that this is based on things you and me would find favorable. If a chick lives in a context where street cred matters, then going for a guy with more street cred than her is hypergamy.

      That guy might be the highest status guy in the world she moves in. Status might be measured by how much people fear him and his willingness to fight.

    2. Frederick: (2. In regards to hypergamy) The loser guy with the tattoo is the best natural fighter. He’s the Alpha in the natural world. He’s not much in today’s modern society. But if you drop a bunch of people on a island. He’s likely to be the leader in no time. Women are naturally attracted to badboys because in nature they are the best protectors and providers. Women are not always really attracted to the guys successful in today’s society. Just attracted to their resources. From a female biological perspective. She wants to get pregnant from the badboy. And make the rich guy think it’s his. Her child would have the Alpha genetics. And the beta’s resources. (women cheat on beta’s with badboys whenever they are most fertile)

    3. 1) That question is answered in both books.

      2) Rockstars aren’t deadbeats. Those supposed losers may not be deadbeats either, at least in her eyes. It’s quite common that those are drug dealers who simply trade sex for cocaine.

    1. Yes, scary indeed.

      Some of the tweets in response to Ellen Pao are funny. To her question of what silicon valley will do about incels, some tweeted back we should pay for blow Jobs or PUA courses for incels.

      As Black Pigeon said in his video, women destroy everything. Rather than competing against China, U.S. Tech focuses on feel-good gender equity. (I suppose the way to impede China is to infect it with feminism.)

      On a related note, Chinese companies have hired “Cheer leaders” to motivate male coders work harder :

    2. Thanks for sharing that link! I like how overt those Chinese companies are. In the West, often incompetent but good-looking women are hired in tech to both boost morale among incel programmers and to fulfill imposed sex quotas. Well, the solution of hiring good-looking women in such a situation is simply the smart engineering approach, because if a woman doesn’t meet the hiring bar for men anyway, it doesn’t really matter if she’s completely incompetent or only somewhat incompetent. Some companies even set up teams consisting only of women and put them smack in the middle of an open-plan office. Of course, eventually they’ll balloon and get promoted to project management or into a role like “Scrum master”, and then your organization is stuck with them. (I think the next crash can’t come fast enough as this will wipe out political correctness quickly.)

    3. These sjw idiots think incell is some ideological hate group or something. It’s just guys that can’t get laid. That guy from the Toronto attack was also autistic, attend special needs schooling. And was known to behave like a cat. (no surprise he couldn’t get laid) That incell revolution only exists in his own head. Why go after incells? It’s just stupid. He’s clearly just a crazy person. Incell has nothing to do with it. Him being incell is just a consequence of being crazy. Most women are simply not attracted to guys that behave like a kat.

    4. (Chinese companies have hired “Cheer leaders” to motivate male coders work harder)
      Sounds like a stupid idea. Women in the workplace are only distracting. And unless they give them some action they probably only get frustrated. Putting it in their face all day probably only gives them blue balls.

    5. “(Chinese companies have hired “Cheer leaders” to motivate male coders work harder)
      Sounds like a stupid idea. Women in the workplace are only distracting. And unless they give them some action they probably only get frustrated. Putting it in their face all day probably only gives them blue balls.”

      Fully agree. I think it’s too much of a distraction unless the coders get to actually fuck these women, which they don’t. They better spend the money on more coders so that the current staff doesn’t have to work too much.
      The real company goodie would be to find a way to get these men have (more) sex. “Business trips” with happy-end or whatever have you, be creative 😉

    6. @AaronSleazy: “In the West, often incompetent but good-looking women are hired in tech to both boost morale among incel programmers and to fulfill imposed sex quotas.”

      I wonder how these female-oriented “incubators” (er, “pink-cubators”) and female-only start-up funding will fare. For example, there’s and

      (Funny, how there is talk of boys clubs and such, and the solution is to be sexist and try to create girls-only funding).

    7. I don’t think they will fare too well once the government gravy train runs out. Some people refer to female-founded technology companies as “femtech”, by the way. I’d not be surprised if that term ends up being used only in a mocking manner in a few years’ time.

  6. I’m usually the one answering questions, but I feel like asking some this time. I’d love to hear other peoples experiences.

    Thing is, over that past couple of years I’ve gone mgtow. My specific version means that I “don’t bother with women”…

    Specifically I completely ignore women who aren’t super hot to me. Unless she throws herself at me. My criteria is:

    – She has to throw herself at me
    – if she’s super hot I’ll throw in a bit of effort to see if she’s easy enough

    If there’s any sign she’ll require effort I immediately eject and do something more productive with my time.

    1. Now, what I’m curious about. Want to see if anyone has had similar experiences…

      Among other things….Girls regularily ask me if I’m gay. There’s also the accusation that I probably have many girls on the side and do this with lots of girls. Usually happens when I show a bit of interest.

      And yeah it’s the same chicks asking these two contradictory things on different days.

    2. Ok, “super hot” is an exaggeration. I guess it’s more “hot enough to where I can imagine bookmarking/downloading a porn scene with her in it”.

    3. The part that’s new is the gay comment. I’ve been getting the playa type comments long ago now. But since I changed to a more mgtow mindset, I’ve been getting the gay thing.

    4. When they call you gay or use any other other type of shaming tactic, isn’t it just a subconscious attempt to pull you back into the plantation so to speak? These women are hot and have guys thrown get themselves at them on a regular basis, except you don’t treat them the same way. Therefore you’re either a player or a homosexual, because for a guy to go MGTOW is incomprehensible to most women. Probably since women fear being alone.

    5. Yah, shaming tactics are in fact all about “get back to the plantation manservant”… I just it interesting how a mindset shift in me changed the shaming tactics they use on me.

    6. AlekNovy: Same experience here. Almost same criteria. I also don’t do western women other than escorts. Whenever i’m within the western world i just don’t socialise with women. I keep all contract to a minimum. Outside the western world i do hot approach. If a hot girl gives me the look i approach and wont hold back. But inside the western world it’s just to risky these days. And western women always give me trouble afterwards. I’m just done with them. The moment i detect even a little feminist programming i’m turning cold as ice. I don’t care how hot they look. She can be a top model, naked and all over me. I wont fuck them unless she works with the escort service i always use. No exceptions. I had enough drama with women already. I don’t need that shit in my life. It’s just not worth it.

    7. AlekNovy: As for the gay thing. It’s part shaming tactics. Part protection of their own ego. I get it sometimes. But i also often dress very well for a straight guy. Even though i behave manly. So it’s understandable they are confused. And i really don’t care if they think i’m gay. Maybe they leave me alone if they do. Less trouble for me. And a smaller chance they accuse me of anything i didn’t do.

  7. Oh yeah, being called gay is the rationalization of women why they can’t get you (since you’re not behaving like the typical thirsty guy). I consider this as one of nature’s greatest compliment towards a guy.

    When girls evaluate the guys in their circle (say, uni) among themselves, they label the interesting “specimens” which they cannot get as “gay” (interesting to the degree of fantasizing about them)

    1. What I love is when chicks bragplain by whining about how thirsty and needy guys are supposedly. I’ve always found this interesting, but I find it even more funny now.

      These same chicks constantly complain to me about how thirsty guys are. And then ask what’s wrong with me, how come I’m not thirsty.

  8. @Alex Novy,
    When it comes to women, my approach is similar to yours and Aaron. I simply take the path of the least resistance cause I learned that girl will make the experience easy to guys they particular like and find attractive. They’ll make one guy jump through many obstacles while they make sex easy for some other guy. I have witness this countless of times from my experience. What they say and do are two different things. What they say is different from what they respond to emotionally. In the end, they’re gonna fuck whomever they want, and they will make it easy to someone they find favorable.

    Quick Question…whats the deal with girls who object to guys sexual advances once both parties are in the bedroom or in the living room. In the PUA community, they call it Last Minute Resistance. I used to get this a lot in the past. However, I could never figure out “why” girls would object. Now, I rarely get LMR, and it always involves screening them physically once I meet them, or Im out on a date with them. If I see the slightest resistance to any physical contact (non-sexual) like holding hands or hugging, and they object my advances, I will often get rid off the girl cause I know that at the end of the date once I have them back at my place they will more than likely object to to sex and my sexual advances (LMR) and thus not put out. What are your thoughts on LMR?

    1. I think LMR is a by-product of initially insufficient attraction from her side, i.e. can be overcome with proper screening.
      You always have that one weirdo who will pull away when things get serious. Just relax and be ready to walk away. That calms them down.

      Since I only engaged interested women in the first place after finding Aaron’s approach I’ve practically had zero LMR.

  9. @ Alex
    What are your thoughts about Prince Harry marrying Meghan Markle (western whore), a used up slut who is past her expiration date? Does it strike you odd the Prince Harry is marrying an older woman than a younger one?

    1. No thoughts. Hadn’t even heard about it until you mentioned. That is hella weird though. Why would a prince get a chick that age. Makes no sense. Weird as fuck.

    2. She is a great manipulator… Probably the poster girl for all women who are past it and low social status to be able to get a prince.

      Heard that she basically made her dad bankrupt supporting her dream of acting and not helping him with his finances when broke. This from her step brother.

      Also her ex husband, fairly high status and with money… Got ditched as soon as she became semi famous in suits

    3. Can’t say for sure this time. But mostly royal weddings are politically motivated. And it’s not like she would be the only woman for him. There will be plenty other women for him to fuck.

    4. That is true. Mistresses are part of of being royal. Most of their sex is with women other than the wife anyway.

    1. Don’t expect justice if a woman commits a crime. They will twist and turn it until she looks like the victim. Women can get away with almost anything and everything. They are far less likely to stand before a judge at all. Even if they are prosecuted they are far less likely to be convicted. And if they are, their sentence is 66% lower on average than a man’s would be for the same crime.

    2. Just look at the woman that cut the dick off her boyfriend while her boyfriend was sleeping. She go’s on talkshows and book promotions. She’s getting rich because of it. Everyone is laughing about it. Just imagine it was the other way around. If the guy would cut off her tit. Would people be laughing? Would he get off without time in prison? Would he get rich from book sales and talkshows about it?

  10. I want to comment on an experience at my place of work last week that had I noticed 5 years ago, I probably wouldn’t have given it much thought. However, after some experience, much contemplatation and a healthy dose of red pills, I’ve become much more distraught by the current state of female behaviors and attitudes.

    I work around probably 90% of women in an Eastern state of the USA, so you may be able guess what my current occupation would be. Most of these women are either unattractive, married/ in LTR or both, so I’m not super tempted or anything. So just this past week alone there two things that stuck out to me and just made my stomach kind of turn.

    An older, unattractive woman with short hair in her early 40s(?) migrated to my department to celebrate her recent success of snagging some halfway well off loser. She joked about presenting him with some gift that read “What’s yours is mine”, to which all the other women within ear shot erupted with laughter, another one expressing encouragement saying that this woman had finally “figured it out”. You go girl! Never once did this woman exclaim how happy she was to find her true love and how good of a guy he is, but rather she was flaunting all her new gained assets, prizes and trinkets to everyone. What an old whore.

    Secondly, I needed to step off the floor and have someone cover my bases while I was gone, so I looked towards the young, married, slim and relatively much more attractive female and motioned with my finger that I was heading out. Instead of nodding with approval or shaking her head with disapproval, she instead motioned in the another direction with tongue in cheek to represent a blow job.

    I kind of just stood there like, uhh. So she busted out laughing, joking about sexual harassment, and even went on to talk about how much of sexless marriage she and her big dumb chuck husband have. I just needed to go is all.

    1. I’m not sure what your job would be but your location being eastern USA means you are in a left wing hell hole.

      Similar to the post Aaron made about this bizarre marriage of some mulatto actress and a red haired Prince, another seemingly bizarre trend is declining birth rates and the push for gay relations and infinite genders.

      I say seemingly bizarre but it could be explained as a push by the “elites”. With women eschewing babies for careers, trying to be men and chasing the same rewards as men (money status career progression), and media pushing gay acceptance… Is this not population control? What better way than to turn men gay and make women abandon their God given birthright to give birth to babies?!

      If you still don’t believe me, check this article celebrating a teen boy wearing makeup:

    2. @ Shaking my head

      Is a decline in birth rates in the United States a bad thing? Can a man really be “turned” from straight to gay? If there is a god and if it gives a woman the ability to reproduce, does the woman have an obligation to do so?

    3. “Beyond talent and a true role model for being yourself. Wish more high school kids would catch on,” one fan wrote.

      Being yourself? That’s about as fake as it gets. Kid admitted using some software to get the exact picture he wanted. So brace.

    4. The second incident sounds like very aggressive flirting to me. Tread carefully! Also, I don’t think that working in a field with 90% women is healthy in the long run, so maybe explore your options.

    5. Sophia: (Is a decline in birth rates in the United States a bad thing?) It’s the white middle class that doesn’t reproduce in the Western world. They are the productive people that drive the culture and economic success. The unproductive people are growing rapidly in numbers. The replacement of the productive people for unproductive people is a death sentence for the Western world.
      (Can a man really be “turned” from straight to gay?) No. But you can turn a child into anything you want.
      (If there is a god and if it gives a woman the ability to reproduce, does the woman have an obligation to do so?) Most women are the happiest at home with their children. But they realise this when it’s already to late. Many Western women only want to settle down when men lose interest in them. And they finally realise the feminist story of having it all is a lie. Besides that it’s the men who lose interest in relationships because of the hostile environment. And the typical behaviour Western women display in today’s society.

  11. “According to the U.S. Census Bureau: While 3.2 million (91 percent) nurses are female, only 330,000 (9 percent) are male. Men are best represented among nurse anesthetists. In 2011, 41 percent of nurse anesthetists are male.”

    Honestly, I pulled the 90% stat out of my ass. I agree that it is indeed very much not a super healthy avenue to pursue. I’m approaching 30, however and don’t want to do anymore schooling, so perhaps I could start a side business and work part-time. I at least have the ability to roam the country and I’m very much overdue for a change in scenery. Also, you guys might be terrified to learn what other situations I’ve gotten myself in over the past few years. I’m not proud.

    1. @Sophia:

      “Is a decline in birth rates in the United States a bad thing?”
      ==> Depends…take a look at Japan (and even China)…demographics is destiny as they say. Of course, the left-wing Kumbaya point of view (see Justine Tru-dolt, the PM of Canada) is that a cuntry can solve this through immigration (any kind of immigration will do, van attacks come with the package!).

      “If there is a god and if it gives a woman the ability to reproduce, does the woman have an obligation to do so?”
      ==> No, if the woman in question is your typical welfare mom (

    2. @Shaking my head

      There is no appreciable biological difference in people of different races. I assume you mean that their culture is inferior, but wouldn’t most negative aspects of their culture (such a religiosity, intolerance of homosexuals, etc) dissipate over time in a place such as Canada?

      Even so, population maintenance or increase is far from necessary in the West. They’re just slowing down due to increasing education levels. That already happened in many developed countries.

    3. That may be true according to your libtard professors in Gender Studies. It is not true in reality, however. There are enormous differences in IQ between ethnicities. Also, nothing “dissipates” when it comes to different cultures. Instead, we now have parallel societies. That would be obvious to you, too, if you dared to open your eyes.

    4. “There is no appreciable biological difference in people of different races. ”

      You are such a fucking hypocrite, I can’t fucking believe it. Why are you not doing anything against the discrimination of white athletes who are not scoring as high as black athletes in the Olympic games? If there’s no biological difference between blacks and whites, then obviously white athletes are being totally suppressed by some other force, which you are ignoring. This force has to be racism.
      You are not fighting this racism, so you, too are racist.

      You see, you dumb cunt? We can play this card, too.

    5. “Even so, population maintenance or increase is far from necessary in the West.”

      So who da fuck is going to pay for your fucking retirement you stupid brainless cunt?
      You yourself? I bet you wouldn’t even know how to set up a basic index-investment scheme for yourself.
      Today’s workers pay today’s and tomorrow’s retired worker’s pension. That’s the deal we agreed on and it worked very well, until money from white productive people was stolen in form of taxes and was give to deadbeat black/muslim/other scum immigrants who consequently were incentivized to reproduce even more based on fucking no achievement of their own, but the grandest thievery in history, i.e. the state sponsored, police enforced, socialist inspired REDISTRIBUTION SCHEME.

      But hey, you are actually right, just as any calorie does not equal any calorie, one person does not equal another. We do not need to maintain society numbers in the West. Heck, get rid of all the fucking muslims, other non-integrating immigrants and anybody who does not represent a net contribution to society. All the money we don’t stick up their lazy asses must go to productive people and incentivize them to have 2-3 children per family.
      Ban anybody from voting who doesn’t have children or who has recieved any kind of social welfare over the last say 5 years.

      You libtards really crack me up. Y’all oughta be put on an island and see how the fuck you get along if you can’t outsource thinking and acting to daddy government.

    6. Sophia: (There is no appreciable biological difference in people of different races. I assume you mean that their culture is inferior, but wouldn’t most negative aspects of their culture (such a religiosity, intolerance of homosexuals, etc) dissipate over time in a place such as Canada?)
      Sadly it’s the opposite in Western Europe. Second and third generation migrants are more criminal, more violent, more anti gay, more extreme in their backwards religious believes. There is no integration of migrants. Only dismantling of the native cultures and societies. It’s a genocide of white european people. Who are forced to pay for their own destruction. And it’s the lefty women like you and their pussy worshipping cucks who make it all possible. They teach you this lefty feelgood bullshit for this very reason.

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