Debate: Are you thinking of leaving the West behind or have you gotten out already?

I just returned from a trip through some Eastern European countries and will probably write a few posts about it. Part of my motivation to travel to Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic was to get a first-hand impression on how well those countries compare to the declining West.

The bigger context is that, particularly among the young and highly qualified, interest in looking greener pastures is growing. For instance, Germany has been suffering from a brain drain for quite a while. The USA, Switzerland, Austria, or Scandinavian countries are popular options. However, there are other options. I would say that all Western countries suffer from similar problems, some more than others. In the end, it boils down to the fact that you can’t have both open borders and a welfare state. In addition, we also have spineless (moronic?) leaders.

Do you share this view? (If not, then we could certainly have a discussion about it.) If so, I would be very interested to hear from you if you have either managed to get out of the West or are in the process of emigrating. Note that I’m talking about legal immigration, with a realistic path ahead, not guys doing visa runs, illegal immigration, internships abroad, short-term expat stays, or ESL teaching gigs.

Please let me know why you left, which countries you considered, why you chose the particular country you emigrated to, and how long the entire process took. Right now I’m primarily interested in hearing from a few more people, as leaving the West behind is an issue I have been looking into myself.

Feel free to comment below or send me an email: aaron.sleazy (at) gmail.com.

What do you think? Let me know in the comments below, but keep the comment policy in mind.
Please support my work with a donation; your contribution is greatly appreciated! If you need further advice, then get my books or arrange a Skype or email consultation.

46 thoughts on “Debate: Are you thinking of leaving the West behind or have you gotten out already?

  1. Would love to hear comments, thx for the idea Sleazy! I myself want to hit Eastern Europe for travel…I figure those places aren’t targets for van attacks or nail bombs.

    As I see all this “diversity” policy, feminism, gay rights…I think of that sci-fi book “The Forever War”. I mean, feminism and gay rights is a way to quell population growth…and together with diversity initiatives, increase the supply of labor and de-value the price of said labor.

    I wonder if femmies and gays realize they are pawns in this game…

    1. Eastern Europe doesn’t have much terrorism but higher crime rates. depending on where you want to go in Eastern Europe. be careful when taxi drivers bring you to bars with women. the chances are that after you buy her a drink her pimp walks up to you and demands money. basically robbing you. a other way off robbery is by a woman drugging your drink in your hotel room. this is mostly happening in the most popular tourist areas. most off Eastern Europe’s women are still feminine and easy going compared to western women. if you like nature Romania will be a great destination for travel. the culture can be totally different from country to country. so if you’re interested in culture you should do some research before you go. if you’re interested in bisness Eastern Europe isn’t really the place to be. there just isn’t much money to make and life isn’t that cheap compared to some other places.

    2. “if you’re interested in bisness Eastern Europe isn’t really the place to be. there just isn’t much money to make”

      It’s more because of the “yeah, yeah, let’s see, maybe tomorrow”-attitude.
      Bulgaria could easily be a tax heaven with 10% corporate and 10% maximum income tax.
      (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe)

      Problem is the post-soviet work attitude.

    3. most feminist have no idea what’s going on. the people behind the feminist movement are planning it from day one. basically it’s just population control. the state is now the head in every household. every woman is married with the state. dependant on the state instead off men directly. all children are property off the state. all children raised by the state. and the men are just the fuel to be burned to keep the machine going. women are drawn to the alpha. and the state is the ultimate alpha around. what more powerful protector can they wish for. always ready to crush any man at her call. taking men’s resources and giving it to women. always complimenting her on how strong, beautiful, special and independent she is. clearing her from all blame and responsibility. how can a man compete. it’s all about transfer off wealth and power. and it gives the sneaky weaklings on top off the pyramid the opportunity to mate with the best women the world has to offer. while the genetics on the bottem get weaker.

    4. in the end we are all pawns. left or right. the people pulling the strings play us all. they have the power to create money out off nothing with a push on their keyboards. money is god in the modern world. people do everything for money. they work for money. they kill for money. they breed for money. they lie for money. money sets people in motion far more then politics. how can a smal group off smart but weak men control the world. well simply by controlling the money. there is no free market if you have central banks controlling the money supply. banks that are privately owned and not answer to anyone but their classified owners. in a system where the governments are dependant on these banks. and answer to these banks instead off the other way around. and surprise who’s financing the feminist movement? and almost every large movement? money controls pussy. pussy controls men. wy do we get more high quality pussy abroad? money. all people migrating world wide. no united people left to stand against them.

    5. Neutralrandomthoughts low tax is only interesting if you make money in the first place. sure you can make some money everywhere. but a place like Bulgaria just isn’t top off the list. the only interesting projects where you can make some real money in Bulgaria are the ones that are sponsored by the european union. but unless you have contacts in brussels i dont think you’re going to get in on the action. laber costs are low, but not as low as in other countries. work ethics are poor. if you’re interested in making money there are better places to do it. if the european union stays together Bulgaria will slowly improve. if not it will drop. risky right now. i just not feel confidant right now with eastern europe. if the european union falls you will lose money. (the girls are nice in Bulgaria)

    6. “the only interesting projects where you can make some real money in Bulgaria are the ones that are sponsored by the european union. but unless you have contacts in brussels i dont think you’re going to get in on the action.”

      This would be some heavy shit then and you would definitely run across some people there you actually do not want to have anything to do with. I’m talking mafia and shit.

      “if the european union stays together Bulgaria will slowly improve.”
      Not sure about that. Since they entered 2007 it has become worse I think. I’ve been there every year for years now and pfff… what should I tell you… it’s the people.
      Even if I did have let’s say something running which makes $ 10k per month I’d still not go live there because of the mentality (and also the infrastructure.) Mind you I speak the language perfectly and still, it’s a big culture clash every time I go there, because I just treat people differently. There, nobody gives a fuck about you it seems.
      Example:
      In 2015 I got out of Sofia Airport and needed to get to the bus station. For that I wanted to take the metro to not get ripped off by the taxi drivers, but I didn’t know which line exactly to take. So there is a lady at a counter selling tickets. I say “Hello”. No answer.
      Then I say: “I need to go to the central bus station”. She says “well, then go there.”
      Wtf…

      So for me it’s 2 weeks per year at the sea, some party, some chicks, get some sun tan, meet some relatives and back home. I really appreciate landing at Zürich airport every time.

      But yes, the girls are truly beautiful.

    7. Neutralrandomthoughts i see this in most off eastern europe. in romania it’s the same. the european union sponsors all kinds off projects in eastern europe. basically all off them involving mafia. the tax money off west is basically used to sponsor organised crime and corrupt officials in the east. the girls are the only thing i like from eastern europe. the carpathian mountains area has beautiful nature. the culture is very harsh. i had multiple girlfriends from bulgaria and romania. they are beautiful and very feminine but also horrible gold diggers in my experience. (all import short term relationships) i do like to party with them. much more fun then western women. less mind games. more direct to the point. they’ll fuck your brains out if you buy them the stuff they want. if you don’t they move on without much drama.

    8. “they’ll fuck your brains out if you buy them the stuff they want. ”

      Yeah exactly. This is so incredible. I mean you just throw some money at them and act nice but still escalate. This will actually get you laid, with much less “shit tests” (wohoo, these old-school PUA terms… hahaha). Or maybe being obviously not stingy and having a “naw, it’s alright, it’s on me” attitude helps a lot. Of course the “insurance policy” is always the same: Escalate, escalate, escalate. If she doesn’t accept me touching her, but still expects me buying drinks ans stuff, then she’s a gold digger. NEXT.

      If you don’t mind, where are you from?

    9. Neutralrandomthoughts; I’m from the netherlands.
      directly or indirectly. women always want men to pay.
      picking up women is almost like clubbing baby seals. pump and dump isn’t hard to accomplish. finding a respectable woman is much harder in this day and age. most women from eastern europe that i encounter come here to work or study. both situations they’ll be in need for money. i dress sharp so most off them assume i have money the moment they see me. so basically i’m already halfway down their panties from the start. 2 drinks later their panties are nowhere to be found. sometimes i keep them for a month or two. when they realise i’m not going to spend big money on them they’ll move on. and that’s just ok. sometimes i pick them up in the supermarket. i just start bashing the food they’re buying and offer them a better meal at my place. i open a bottle and it’s a done deal.

  2. Oh boy, do i share this view with you. Great post, Aaron. In my case, leaving this western shit hole behind sounds good, but can’t be pulled off so easily. I mean, if you’re a part of the working class then going abroad to live da good life is a pipe dream.
    Sure, you can move to say Thailand, and even benefit from the exchange rate there. What i make here in a day is a months worth of wages there if i’m correct, but it’ll be hard to stay there without being considered an illegal.

    What irritates me the most about my country is how completely pussified and feminized it is. Even the man (or secretly woman, who knows?) that we call our ”leader” is a beta male and the forefront of the dominant retarded Left here. The police are laughable. This reminds me of your gimmegrant video, showing three policewomen who’s boss. Well, the police here isn’t so hard to deal with either. You can insult them, shout at them, even throw stuff at them, and you’ll probably still have to go even farther for them to take action. And no, i am not joking. Instead of showing such an offender the hard way, the Left here believes everything can be ”talked about”. It disgusts me. I often compare that to the police of say, a country in south-america. You don’t mess with the police there, oh no you wouldn’t even dare to. And when they ban their own uncontrollable savages out of their own country, the Left here welcomes them with a hug and a free 3-star accomodation. It is too insane for words really.

    1. Peter Z there are great possibilities for moving to asia. even if you’re in the working klass. you just have to plan ahead. i know many former working klass men in thailand. you just have to be smart and dont rush things. don’t be the fool that shows up with $10000 thinking he’s going to make it without any experience. never buy a bar in thailand and never believe you’re going to make big money fast. it’s much more easy to spend money in thailand then make even a little. you have to know what you’re doing. but if you do the research and are willing to do the work there are possibilities for you in thailand. a internet bisness can also be a great way to make money in the west while living in thailand. you can start up while living in the west and make the move when you make a large enough amount to live on in thailand. saving money is always a good start if you aren’t sure yet what to do.

    2. Peter Z if you make a 10 year plan. you should be able to do it. i knew i wanted to leave the west when i was 23. i just started to save money and minimise my expenses. i had no idee where to go or what to do yet. sure it wasn’t always fun. i didn’t buy stuff that i didn’t needed. i didn’t go out much. i didn’t spend money on women. i just worked my ass off and saved as much as i could. but now i’m happy i did it. 12 years later i’m in a great position. now i have options. almost everyone was trying to change my mind and told me i should get married but i refused and stuck to the plan. today all my old friends are miserable in marriage or already divorced. i’m on top off the world. while they are fat, miserable and broke. determination and time is all it takes.

  3. moving to thailand next year. thailands immigration rules are mostly a financial matter. some people use loopholes extending their tourist visa time after time. personally i use a non-immigrant B visa. this is a bisness visa that’s valid for one year and can be extended without leaving the country. to get this visa you have to invest a 2mil thb minimum into a thai company. other visa types are. thailand elite visa. you can simply buy this for 0.5mil for 5 years. retirement visa. student visa. a work related visa that is mostly used for english teachers. or you can get married or have a child in thailand. the time it takes to get your visa or extension can differ from just days to 6 weeks. it all comes down to the financial contribution you can offer to their economy. if you don’t have money $100000 minimum dont go to thailand. if you do have money and going to stay in thailand. WARNING! almost everyone will try to screw you and take your money. you need reliable thai contacts.

  4. i’m looking into the possibilities for starting a bisness/gentleman’s club. offering a meeting point for reliable bisness partners in thailand. lawyers, bookkeepers, thai bisness men, foreign bisness men etc. basically a place where the people are screened for corruption before membership is granted. where we do bisness the right way and people can go network in a relaxed environment. i’m still doing the math and research. so not sure it’s going to take shape anytime soon. it’s more like a pet project and not a priority for me. i have other more important bisness to handle first. but i think a club like this can be off great value to people wanting to move to thailand to conduct bisness. i’m lucky i have a thai family to help me. otherwise it would be a lot harder for me. thailand is improving fast but sadly there are still a lot off shady people screwing foreigners.

  5. I’ve corresponded with you before regarding this Aaron. I wanted to email you more regarding this but didn’t get around to planning a fully thought out post so I’ll just teply with some points I’d been thinking about here.

    It is my opinion that Asia is not really as safe as outsiders think. Densely populated urban centres, credit crises throughout the region, heavy pollution are just some of the problems that Asian countries face. I would not want to be caught in an urban centre in an apocalyptic scenario personally. What the West faces are really mainly social problems that can be fixed if there’s political will (although of course it is hard to muster it) — Asia’s problems to me seem far more deep-rooted than that.

    Eastern Europe sounds like a better option IMO.

    1. Alvin if you expect a apocalyptic scenario yes. you can go to the carpathian mountains and start a farming community that lives totally isolated from the world. personally i wouldn’t bet on a world wide apocalyptic scenario. more like a slow deterioration off the the western world and maybe civil war in western europe. africa will always be a hell hole. the middle east will always be a hell hole. asia while not perfect has potential. specially because they have lots off food. if the worlds population keeps rising they will have great trading opportunities. as for eastern europe i just dont see it turning into a economic power house without the support off western europe.

    2. Alvin a other problem when you think off a apocalyptic scenario would be the fact that this would probably include war with russia. if the west gets into a war with russia. eastern europe would probably become the battle ground where army’s off west and east would clash.

    3. Asia’s “lots of food” is not enough for its dense population. That’s part of why Chinese are buying up farms all over the world.

    4. Alvin the Chinese buy everything. They basically own the US economy now. I’m not a expert on China. It’s not interesting to me because the only way to do bisness in China is by government envoy or something like that. They should have enough potential farm land. I’m based in Thailand anyway. Thailand has the largest rice production in the world and the sea’s are rich with life. They are protecting their interests very well without limiting trade. I feel confident they’ll do just fine. Personally i have my assets spread between the US and Europe. I never bet everything on one horse. Thailand is the place i want to live and do some bisness. I’m not dependant on it. I’m just expending there.

    5. I always try to spread my money. I’m more flexible that way. I’m not dependant on just one market. If the market moves so do i. Sometimes i lose a little. Sometimes i win. Long-term i’m winning. That’s what matters most. I’m not trying to make fast and easy money I’m going for endurance.

    6. Thailand can be tricky for foreigners. You’ll need reliable thai partners there. So i can see wy some wouldn’t invest there. I’m not saying it’s all easy there. Making money in thailand can be very hard. Losing money is easy everywhere. Thailand is a nice place to live as a white man. And it has opportunities if you have the right contacts. Just don’t rush in believing you are going to make fast and easy money. Thailand attracts a lot off dreamers. It’s a place that will mess with your head if you’re not careful. Mostly because it’s just so nice there. It’s a beautiful country, the people are nice, the weather is nice, the women are amazing. This drives people to do stupid things. They want their holiday to last forever and make desperate moves. Thailand has opportunities if you’re not stupid and try to rush things.

    7. The number one mistake men make in thailand would be buying a bar. They go on holiday in thailand and don’t want to leave anymore. They have this grand idea off buying a bar with lots off beautiful women working for them. They start a company with a thai person they hardly know because a foreigner can only own 49% off a thai company. They then lease the building and pay key money plus rent. Most off it under the table. They let someone els run the bar because they don’t have a work permit and start drinking and fucking with the girls working there. Result: the partner rips him off, the girls rip him off, the local gangsters rip him off, the police rip him off, and after a year when his lease expires the landlord will give him the option to pay a lot off money or get the fuck out. the partner then sells the company and the guy has lost all his money. For people this stupid. please don’t go to thailand.

  6. Alek Novy no not really relevant. that’s tourist stuff. if you’re just interested in hookers on holiday. yes great go for it. if you are interested in moving to thailand i wouldn’t go there. it’s not a nice place for living. maybe http://www.livingthai.com will be a better place for info then a porn site. oh and outside the tourist areas you can get laid for free with much nicer girls. i never pay for sex in thailand. not directly. i just take the girls out in one off the places where the thai people party. costs B1600 is +- $35 for 8 girls one guy. bottle off wiskey, mixers, food and live music. dont ever do what the fool in the video did. never have sex without a condom when dealing with thai hookers. unless you want to die.

  7. if you are interested in moving to thailand you should avoid the tourist places. the best way to really learn how thailand works and to get the best prices is by having thai friends. i pay only 20% for almost everything that a tourist would pay for. food B80 for me while a tourist would pay B500. sex is free for me. tourist B1000 short time or B2000 long time with only the normal looking girls. B3000 for the really hot ones. just get your self some thai friends. if you dont have thai friends maybe you can make a deal with a girl. B10000 for 2 weeks would be interesting for most. she can then help you learn the way around. translate and negotiate prices for you. and help you with other needs. you could even make a deal with 2 girls. you’ll have a better holiday and it would be cheaper then going from bar to bar every night. (you’ll have to pay for food etc but those are not the costs outside the tourist areas)

  8. for about THB15000 a month you can have your self a really hot sugar baby in thailand if you’re interested in those type off things.
    (top model hot)

  9. personally i go to a smaller city where the only foreigners are with retirement. i’m 35 and not bad looking. while most foreign men are 70. needless to say. i’m the alpha dog in town. top off the food chain. i dont have to chase girls. i almost need a stick to beat them off. sometimes they literally grab me when i’m just walking outside.

  10. Pattaya is not a place you want to move to. it’s SIN CITY. it’s a place you visit if you want to go totally out off control full retard. if the devil exists (i’m not religious) i’m sure he lives in Pattaya.

  11. Alek Novy it’s not good advertisement for Thailand. It’s only good for the people interested in the sex industry. Thailand has more to offer. Most western people only know this side off Thailand. I dont have any moral problems with prostitution but i do think it’s sad that this is the only side people know. Most thai people are conservative. It’s only the tourist places that have a high concentration off hookers like this. If you look just a little bit farther you’ll see a lot off pretty looking traditional girls that would make great potential partners. (Not judging those who do want to have fun in Thailand). Can be a great experience. Specially if you are used to western women. But if that’s all you see in Thailand you are missing a lot off other nice thing’s.

  12. Ben, buddy, don’t take this the wrong way, but you should really consider condensing your points into fewers posts.

    1. y i know. i’m multitasking. doing other stuff. posting in between. sorry for the inconvenience.

  13. Have you ever considered Australia or New Zealand?

    Aside from drought areas in Australia, the ecological future for these regions is better than that of Asia, and in general SJW-culture has not spread there as much — Australians sent refugee ships back and they finally stopped. What’s more, the population is English-speaking and educated.

    The smart money in China is fleeing China; they are buying land and property all over the world. It wouldn’t make sense to go to China if the elites themselves don’t have confidence in China IMO.

    Hong Kong is losing its importance and coming under the control of Beijing more and more. The main reason it prospered in the 20th century was because it used to be the “gateway” to China but now China itself has opened up.

    Singapore is a city whose economy is based on globalism. I’m not very optimistic about the long-term future of the city in this era of greater polarization and even if globalism remains a significant force, things like China’s planned canal through the isthmus of Kra and the Belt and Road initiative mean that Singapore is going to be hit.

    If you really want to mingle with the expat crowd you’ll be hanging out with never-Trumpers, and assorted globalists and IYI cucks.

    1. Australia is rather left-leaning. SJWs have a strong presence there. I like their tough stance on illegal migration. There are negatives, though, such as the housing bubble.

    2. Can you say a bit more about Singapore?
      I always hear that the muslim/non-muslim melting pot is working very well there, but I have a hard time believing this.

    3. @Alvin

      Im pretty sure NZ is very strict on its immigration policy so that might be a bit of a deterrent. As for Australia (where I reside) you will need a fair amount of money it is expensive . Sydney is quite cliquey if you are ethnic and don’t no any locals you will have a hard time with girls if you aren’t a 10.

      @Aarron
      It really isn’t that left leaning welfare is fucked but there tightening it up. Its more just the government workers are extortionists. The left as per usual dominates the media, issues which people don’t give a shit about are overrepresented. Much like the US Australia has nationalist roots. In traditional Australian culture (not indigenous) the mindset is somewhat of a libertarian ideal

  14. Aaron
    Did you pick PL, CZ and HU because they do not have the Euro? Just curious…

    I’d be happy to hear how you liked Czech Republic in particular ( you mentioned you might write a bit about your travels).

    Btw, I just came back from Slovenia and I really liked it. Sure, I was less in Ljubljana and more at the sea side, between Croatia and Italy, but it seemed to me that it was a nice (and some times irritating) mix between Central European “orderliness” and South-East European more easy going life style. I much prefer smaller countries, Slovenia is like 2 Mio total. Small is beautiful.

    1. A lot of the leading euro-pornstars comes from Cz, Hu (some are from PL)… I did research once, and they are the most promiscuous countries too. I don’t remember how it was measured, but very free sexuality.

    2. This covers what I mentioned above

      https ://www.quora.com/Which-country-has-the-highest-number-of-porn-stars

  15. Neutralrandomthoughts, I lived in both the UK and Singapore I’ll say that Muslims in Singapore are quite different from those in UK. They are more relaxed in some ways but more conservative in others.

    You will rarely see Muslim women in full niqabs in Singapore. Headscarves are more common. You will also rarely see Muslim men with long beards.

    The Muslims here are primarily Malay with some Indian Muslims as well. “Devoutness” is relative but most fast during Ramadan at least. Still, many of them have premarital sex and get into relationships before marriage. Intermarriage with non-Muslims is low.

    There is some ethnic tension but IMO the issue is largely ethnic, not religious. IME a disproportionate amount of those who adopt SJW ideas in Singapore are Malays and Indians. Radical Islam still exists, but Singapore does ban extremist preachers if they are found out unlike the West. Nonetheless, due to Saudi and Qatari influence, Muslims all over the region are becoming more Wahhabi.

  16. May I suggest to you instead of finding the perfect country to expatriate to, you can be under the control of no government and living in many cities and places. All of which has to have desirable characteristics. Travel around. Be a perpetual traveler.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *